Irish Mk 3s for sale

[sprinterguy]

I have been told by an engineer (who is one of my collegues) who worked on the construction of these vehicles that to regauge the bogies for the UK is quite a simple task. If I understand correctly, and I am no engineer, you would not even have to change to bogie itself, just some of the parts.

That was also my understanding: I also am nae engineer, not by a long shot, but I was under the impression that the bogie frames are of very similar/the same dimensions as their English counterparts, and it is the wheelsets themselves and associated paraphernalia that would only require changing. I might be completely wrong though.

Does anybody know how much work was done on the mark 2 vehicles that were moved across from England (Not those that were built specifically for the Irish network, but a few former BR carriages) to make them railworthy for use in Ireland?

 

[dubscottie]

In the case of the Ex-Gatwick stock none.. They used they used the bogies from the Mk2 B/C's that they were scrapping at the time.

In the case of the Early Mk2's IE bought from Vic Berry I think it was a total gut and start again job with everything apart from keeping some of the seats.

Ive a pile of Irish Rail General Arrangement Drawings, so will have a look to see what the dimensions of irish B4 & BT21's are.

 

[dubscottie]

The drawings I have of IrishRail MK3's don't show the BT21's.. However I found drawings of B4's.
[/ATTACH]Anyone have a B4 bogie spare?

2 pics taken from the Drawings show different width of the bogies.(The Cravens coach being wider for some reason)

This is the first time I have used an Apple to upload so what order they are shown in I don't know.

The one with round buffers is from a Cravens coach and the other, with the blue stamp, a MK2.

How do the widths compare to a UK B4 bogie? That would answer the "how easy is it to convert" question!

The Mk2 looks like 7'6'' and the Cravens 8'0 1/4'' (the cravens were a lot wider)

I know Mk3's don't use these but in theory.. New wheelsets?

 

[HSTEd]

Also someone suggested that we would be left with locomotives with no rolling stock once these are life expired, if there are insufficient EMU drag locomotives required we could purchase rolling stock similar to those fancy Talgo designs.
Tilt capable coaching stock would still be useful into the modern era methinks.

 

[IanXC]

Can anyone cast any light on why there is an ex-Irish mark 3 at Kilmarnock?!

 

[matt]

I believe it is for this http://www.belmond.com/grand-hibernian-train/

 

[fgwrich]

I believe it is for this http://www.belmond.com/grand-hibernian-train/

Correct, they were shipped over from Dublin Docks last November going by road. Will be quiet interesting to see these when completed - presumably a few Mk3 Sleepers are being converted for the rake as well as the Grand Hibernian ''will boast accommodation for up to 40 guests travelling in 20 elegant, en-suite cabins'', unless they are converting them from the standard Mk3 opens.

 

[Peter Sarf]

That is a good use for them.

 

[IanXC]

Thanks all! I did a bit of a double take earlier!

presumably a few Mk3 Sleepers are being converted for the rake as well as the Grand Hibernian will luxurious sleeper train ''will boast accommodation for up to 40 guests travelling in 20 elegant, en-suite cabins'', unless they are converting them from the standard Mk3 opens.

They're for use in Ireland looking at the link - were there Irish mark 3 sleepers? If not presumably Irish mark 3 to sleeper will be easier than bringing a UK sleeper to Irish specification?

 

[fgwrich]

Thanks all! I did a bit of a double take earlier!



They're for use in Ireland looking at the link - were there Irish mark 3 sleepers? If not presumably Irish mark 3 to sleeper will be easier than bringing a UK sleeper to Irish specification?

There were no Mk3 Sleepers in Ireland - Just TSO, FOs and RFMs as well as the cousin to the Mk3 Sleeper, the Generator Van. I imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to convert down a UK Sleeper though, both are of course Loco Hauled and both would probably be undergoing a rewire regardless.

 

[sprinterguy]

Correct, they were shipped over from Dublin Docks last November going by road. Will be quiet interesting to see these when completed - presumably a few Mk3 Sleepers are being converted for the rake as well as the Grand Hibernian ''will boast accommodation for up to 40 guests travelling in 20 elegant, en-suite cabins'', unless they are converting them from the standard Mk3 opens.

If the mock-up image on the Belmond website is anything to go by, from the length of the window in the en-suite cabins they will be using the Irish Mk3 opens rather than converting sleeper carriages.

 

[D6975]

There were no Mk3 Sleepers in Ireland - Just TSO, FOs and RFMs as well as the cousin to the Mk3 Sleeper, the Generator Van.

Not quite. There were 57 TSOs, 9 COs, one FO, 3 Citygolds, 13 RBS and 15 Gen vans. Plus the push pull sets, 5 DBSOs and 19 TSOs (these had no tables, just little ledges under the windows).
Citygolds were a sort of first pullman equivalent, used on Cork services.
Some of the push pull coaches got converted to mainline spec with proper tables towards the end of their lives.

They were very pleasant coaches to travel in, apart from the different coloured upholstery, you'd think you were on a HST.

 

[DT611]

As someone who lived in Ireland I personally would rather they had been refurbished & retained in Ireland

couldn't agree more. we could really have done with them being retained even with the ICRS. wasn't to be.

rather than those unpleasant, overweight & over thirsty DMUs being used on some of the long distance Irish routes!

the 22000 class are pleasant enough. all be it they are not flexible to our railways requirements if i'm honest. they should have been ordered as 2 coach sets and a lot more of them. i'm not sure what their fuel consumption is . if your talking about the 2900 class which are regulars on the almost 3 hour journey on the rosslare dublin line and some sligo services, even though they are designed for short distance suburban services, which is their main work, i couldn't agree more, horid, noisy, freezing.

Those Irish DMUs make Voyagers look good! I believe also some politicians criticised the outlay on them, quite rightly!

while i have never or will probably never be on a voyager to tell, continuing having to endure a 2900 class on the almost 3 hour journey between rosslare and dublin and their cousins before them, i will accept that dispite what i've heard and read about voyagers, a voyager can't be as bad as them?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not quite. There were 57 TSOs, 9 COs, one FO, 3 Citygolds, 13 RBS and 15 Gen vans. Plus the push pull sets, 5 DBSOs and 19 TSOs (these had no tables, just little ledges under the windows).
Citygolds were a sort of first pullman equivalent, used on Cork services.
Some of the push pull coaches got converted to mainline spec with proper tables towards the end of their lives.

They were very pleasant coaches to travel in, apart from the different coloured upholstery, you'd think you were on a HST.

some of the pushpulls, or at least the couple of ones i traveled on didn't even have ledges under the window, but its possible they were fitted late in life, as in the early/mid 2000s. dispite no tables though the couple of trips i had on them were very comfortable and pleasant.

 

[najaB]

...i will accept that dispite what i've heard and read about voyagers, a voyager can't be as bad as them?

Having travelled on both, there isn't really much between them. I'd actually say that the 2900 is possibly slightly better.

 

[DT611]

Having travelled on both, there isn't really much between them. I'd actually say that the 2900 is possibly slightly better.

voyagers must really be horrific then? i suppose it depends on what one wants from a train. personally if i'm traveling a short distance i don't mind what it is, but if i'm traveling long distances, comfortable and quiet is my thing. strangely enough i don't mind the airline type layout, i'm not gone on facing people over a table unless i'm in a group of friends or something.

 

[D6975]

some of the pushpulls, or at least the couple of ones i traveled on didn't even have ledges under the window, but its possible they were fitted late in life, as in the early/mid 2000s. dispite no tables though the couple of trips i had on them were very comfortable and pleasant.

You're right, now that you mention it I do remember that sometimes my cup of tea from the little buffet/shop that used to be at Drogheda did sometimes have to sit on the floor when I was bashing 121s.

 

[snakeeyes]

I thought these irish MK3 were scrapped?

 

[berneyarms]

I thought these irish MK3 were scrapped?

Ten have been sold to Belmond for conversion into a luxury train to operate around Ireland (similar to the Belmond Pullman).

Three have been preserved at the West Clare Railway.

 

[hurricanemk1c]

3 are in Inchicore, with 2 of them for PWD work, and 4 EGV's for Enterprise work

Rest scrapped

 

[craigybagel]

You're right, now that you mention it I do remember that sometimes my cup of tea from the little buffet/shop that used to be at Drogheda did sometimes have to sit on the floor when I was bashing 121s.

I commuted on them during my childhood to and from school in the late 90s. Mostly they didn't have any tables or ledges or anything. It was only as they were about to be transferred to intercity services they had tables fitted.