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Introduction of European Entry-Exit Scheme (EES)

popeter45

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Who will check them? There are no border guards, no hard border, the only thing is if you are caught in a criminal act, or maybe a traffic offence. I assume though status is checked when booking in a hotel?
any hotel they stay in will want ID and that will flag them as being in the UK, booking a ferry needs card payment, also flagging being in the UK. ID for plane will also flag location
unless you burn all your ID and pay with cash in hand only to dodgy shops, very hard to hide where you are these days and that will either get flagged instantly (leading to hotel/ferry arrest) or when exiting and lead to alot of criminal charges
 
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The exile

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I've looked at the ETIAS in detail and one site suggested - as a 67-yr-old - I would need to enter my educational qualifications!! Anyway here's the Indy's take thanks to Simon Calder
So - when applying for ETIAS you have to state the purpose of your visit, but the thing then lasts for up to 3 years? Where’s the logic there? I can state (truthfully) that my first trip under ETIAS is a tourist visit - but all the other 30-odd trips I end up making in the following 3 years turn out to be for business - so what have they learned by asking?

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any hotel they stay in will want ID and that will flag them as being in the UK, booking a ferry needs card payment, also flagging being in the UK. ID for plane will also flag location
unless you burn all your ID and pay with cash in hand only to dodgy shops, very hard to hide where you are these days
Clearly your other points are true - but you wouldn’t have to restrict yourself to “dodgy” shops - respectable ones take cash too (and long may that continue).
 

eastwestdivide

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Arriving at Hoek van Holland from Harwich, 3 out of 4 kiosks open, fingerprint reader took a minute to register properly, photo, few questions and done. Ferry to metro in under 20 mins, but I was among the first off the ferry
 
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Arriving at Hoek van Holland from Harwich, 3 out of 4 kiosks open, fingerprint reader took a minute to register properly, photo, few questions and done. Ferry to metro in under 20 mins, but I was among the first off the ferry
Lucky - I did HvH pre EES and took about an hour as a foot pax!
 

Benjwri

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Who will check them? There are no border guards, no hard border, the only thing is if you are caught in a criminal act, or maybe a traffic offence. I assume though status is checked when booking in a hotel?
You have to fill out Advance Passenger Information still, and the ferry companies are required to check that any non UK/Irish citizens have an ETA, same as airlines. If you do not have an ETA you will not be allowed to check in or board.
 

Howardh

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You have to fill out Advance Passenger Information still, and the ferry companies are required to check that any non UK/Irish citizens have an ETA, same as airlines. If you do not have an ETA you will not be allowed to check in or board.
What evidence is required to prove you are an UK citizen on the ferry?
 

Howardh

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Although there is no legal requirement to do so, I always carry my passport with me on trips to and from Ireland these days.
I go to the Channel Islands with my passport, mainly in case we are diverted to a French airport!! I travel frequently to the CI; and I would say about 30-40% of the time I've been asked to show ID on top of my ticket whether outbound or inbound from the UK. If I risked travelling without ID no doubt that would be the occasion it's required!
 

Benjwri

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What evidence is required to prove you are an UK citizen on the ferry?


It’s fairly lose, there are certainly ones you could get without being a citizen. As an example Stena requires the following:
UK citizens travelling between Britain and Ireland
Irish citizens travelling between Britain and Ireland
Please bring your booking confirmation number and a form of identification, such as:

• A current or recently expired passport
• A current or recently expired Irish passport card
• A driver’s licence with photo
• A government-issued photo ID card
• A health insurance or social security card with photo
• An international student card

Due to the special arrangements of the Common Travel Area, Irish citizens do not need an ETA to enter the UK.

Children aged 17 and under will need either their own photo ID or a birth certificate if proof of identity is requested.
 

jmh59

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Entering Alicante 8 days ago was ok. We had no idea if we could / should use the eGates and ended up at the registration gubbins which did not like my specs and having removed them I could not read the instructions. But staff were on hand to help and it only took a couple of minutes including me needing two attempts at registering due to the specs / sight thing. I don't know if we simply missed an instruction or sign so dunno if we really needed to do the EES registration again.

Leaving Alicante today was a breeze. There was a maybe a 5 minute queue for the boarding pass gates by security, very fast through security (despite me being an idiot and leaving a battery powered thing in my bag!). We headed straight for the eGates (which is a long walk), were directed to the middle of three empty lanes, eGates took 30 seconds tops and I did not need to remove my specs. Face only access, it did not need fingerprints.

I must note though that on both entry and exit although it is a big airport it was not particularly busy non-EU wise with most flights at those times being within the Schengen countries.
 

Ant1966

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Update from 2 trips to EU in last 2 weeks.
1 Outbound E* St P Fri 22nd May 16:00. PLenty of kiosks opne, no queue at all. Took my photo and fingerprints, also my wifes.
2 Inbound E* G du Nord Sat 30th May. E* termial in chaos with 2 hour queues. The terminal was evacuated earlier in the day and they never caught back up; there just isnt the space/capacity at G du N. I'm not sure if the delay was especially related to EES or border control, they seemed to have 6 kiosks open? Our 20:01 eventualy left 140 late and arrived back in London after midnight, too late to get home. E* train manager organised a hotel for us (Hilton Hyde Park) but only when asked and the webit ethey use to book hotels is ropey and unresponsive. In general E* staff were excellent, helpful and cheerful, although some more than others. The crowd were getting restless, not helped by a set swap causing further delays after we'd all been herded into a waiting area with no open shops at all! (After the normal closing time, so the retail staff all went home)
3 Outbound LGW Mon 1st June - no queue at all, loads of kiosks open. Arr Milan Linate about 10 minutes wait, plenty of kiosks open
4 Inbound Catania Fri 5th June, no queue at all 4 kiosks. LGW 10 minutes wait, through e gates.
Both hols involved a lot of train travel, which I'll write up separately when I get round to it!
 
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Ferrywise...

I visited Cherbourg and Caen over the weekend on bike, so went through the car area.

Passports are getting scanned, and that's about it. No stamp, no photo or fingerprint. Cherbourg seemed quite quick, with the qeueues going quickly.

Caen on the other hand... it was a busy sailing both ways. Took a fairly long time to go through passport control to leave, with only two booths open. However I noted that cars were also still waiting to go through when we left - which would be about 90 minutes after arriving... not ideal!
 

peteb

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Currently in a very long queue at Berlin airport. Having scanned successfully in the EES stage 1 machine, guess what? It just tells you to go to stage 2 manual control. So absolutely no point in doing stage 1, as you just end up as I did, 100 or so people behind where you would have been in the queue. I guess stage 1 is supposed to eventually tell you to then go through the e gates, but at present these are reserved for those with EU passports. And, like Amsterdam and Zurich, Berlin airport seems to think four border control officers for the non EU queue is sufficient.....it's not! Mind you there's a huge "have your COVID test results ready" sign by the passport control so it looks like the airport is behind with that too.

Still queuing, queue growing, now down to two border control staff.........
 
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Ant1966

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Looking forward to what it'll be like at St Pancras and Amsterdam in the next few weeks!
Famous last words, but:
We were a little apprehensive about St P on Friday 22nd May at 3pm. Friday before school half term; got to be up there for peak numbers travelling? Full EES carried out (photo, fingerprints etc.) with no real queues at all. Well organised, staff friendly and helpful. Reading back up this thread, no obvious issues at St P so far? Fingers crossed...
 

Benjwri

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Currently in a very long queue at Berlin airport. Having scanned successfully in the EES stage 1 machine, guess what? It just tells you to go to stage 2 manual control. So absolutely no point in doing stage 1, as you just end up as I did, 100 or so people behind where you would have been in the queue. I guess stage 1 is supposed to eventually tell you to then go through the e gates, but at present these are reserved for those with EU passports. And, like Amsterdam and Zurich, Berlin airport seems to think four border control officers for the non EU queue is sufficient.....it's not! Mind you there's a huge "have your COVID test results ready" sign by the passport control so it looks like the airport is behind with that too.

Still queuing, queue growing, now down to two border control staff.........
People not doing stage 1 is why the queue is so big. If you do it at the machine the border officers don’t have to do it and therefore the process is quicker.
 
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People not doing stage 1 is why the queue is so big. If you do it at the machine the border officers don’t have to do it and therefore the process is quicker.
Its a strange setup though. When I went through Barcelona few weeks back, I queued up for the magic machines (whatever they are fingerprint and photo I guess) to be told by the machine to go straight to the eGate, it didn't do anything. I'm in Bergamo in a couple of weeks - do I just skip straight to the eGate?!
 

Whisky Papa

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People not doing stage 1 is why the queue is so big. If you do it at the machine the border officers don’t have to do it and therefore the process is quicker.
My experience at Prague in January seemed to be that (somewhat ironically) the machines would not deal with old EU-style maroon passports, leaving all such passengers to be fingerprinted and photographed at the manned booths, and thus delaying all of us who had already completed stage 1.
 

peteb

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People not doing stage 1 is why the queue is so big. If you do it at the machine the border officers don’t have to do it and therefore the process is quicker.
The issue at Berlin today was that I could have skipped stage one and been about 50th in the queue. But I did do stage one, only to find about two planeloads of non Schengen folks had joined the queue whilst I was doing stage 1. And they'd not bothered to do stage one.

After about an hour queuing I got to the border control officer who glanced at my passport, stamped it and handed it back to me. Maybe as there were only two of them on duty by that time with several hundred people queuing they were simply stamping people in: I didn't see my passport put on the reader.

By the way, my son had a similar experience last week, in southern Italy, at a small airport with only a few non Schengen flights daily, and most if not all of those from the UK. So it seems you can't avoid queue issues by trying small airports to enter Schengen unfortunately.........
 

Cloud Strife

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any hotel they stay in will want ID and that will flag them as being in the UK

Many hotels have self-check in these days, so that's already a non-issue. Or they can rent private apartments that use lockboxes, again, no ID checked. There is certainly no systematic checking of ID when checking into accommodation in the UK.

You have to fill out Advance Passenger Information still, and the ferry companies are required to check that any non UK/Irish citizens have an ETA, same as airlines. If you do not have an ETA you will not be allowed to check in or board.

Not when travelling between GB and NI. Any attempt at requiring ID (to verify citizenship/ETA) on GB-NI ferries would result in a massive backlash from the unionist community.

With the EES, it's going to be a very rough summer for many airports. It's clear that part of the issue is how each country and border has different rules for it: some people are being directed to kiosks every time, others are only requiring the kiosk for the registration, while others don't have kiosks at all and everything is done at the desk. The EU really needs to sort this out, ideally with kiosks only being used for registration and then travellers who have already registered being allowed to process straight to e-gates.

People not doing stage 1 is why the queue is so big. If you do it at the machine the border officers don’t have to do it and therefore the process is quicker.

It's not that. The problem is that there isn't a single unified process, so there's a complete mess. Airports are doing a terrible job of communicating to passengers what they need to do, while individual countries have their own requirements. So, for instance, some countries are handling the "border control" at the kiosks and e-gates, while others are only doing the registration there while still requiring a visit to a manual desk.

In general, if you're already registered, then there should be no need to go near a kiosk, you should simply proceed straight to the e-gates. But some countries are using kiosks to perform some border control tasks, which is causing widespread confusion and significant delays. No-one really seems to know if someone is registered on the EES or not, and I've seen in two Polish airports that the full registration process seems to be carried out each time on entry/exit, rather than just a quick biometric scan. Then there's the additional problem that not all e-gates are the same. For instance, in Germany, German citizens can use their ID cards to access the e-gates, and even foreigners with German residence permits can do the same. But I can't use my Polish ID card at their gates, nor can I use Polish e-gates.

It's a confusing mess and it's causing a lot of the queues because no-one really seems to know what's going on. For instance, in Valencia last month, I saw that people could go straight through the e-gates without using the kiosks, even with a British passport. But many people were still using the kiosks even though were obvious tourists who were already registered on the EES, because this is the requirement elsewhere and the signage also requires it.

I'm in Bergamo in a couple of weeks - do I just skip straight to the eGate?!

Give it a try. There's no reason not to, you'll either be rejected or simply directed to the manual control.

Ha! Three times now I've done stage 1. The problem is the staff not taking any notice when you tell them you've already done it. Spain & Portugal.

The issue is that some airports still require it at every visit, and it's completely inconsistent as to what is actually required and what isn't. Some kiosks are handling border control, others are simply doing registration there, and it's just a complete mess.

In comparison, look at how Croatia is handling it on the land borders.

- First visit, you need to use a EES lane (usually most lanes are equipped with the fingerprint scanner / camera, but not all)
- You get out of the car, give your fingerprints and get a picture taken
- This creates the EES record
- You get your passport back and you get into your car

Then: every subsequent time you cross the border, the document you hand over at the booth is checked. If you have an EES record, then all that happens is that the computer automatically compares the picture on your EES record with the picture held on your electronic chip. If it matches, you're good to go. No need to give fingerprints again, no need for additional pictures, everything is seamless.

If you've already registered elsewhere, for example at a kiosk in Spain, then there's no need to do anything, they can see everything and you just hand over your passport.

The same goes for Croatian air borders: once you've been to a kiosk once to pre-register, there's no need to use them again, you just go straight to the manual control.

Again, the issue is that the implementation of the EES is so inconsistent. Some countries are collecting photos and fingerprints on every entry/exit, even when it's not required under the EES. Other countries with land borders aren't bothering with the biometric collection because it's simply not possible to do it, and there's really no reason whatsoever to systematically collect fingerprints/photos from every traveller on every occasion. I suspect that this is partially what is causing most of the chaos: unnecessary and repeated data collection from third country nationals.
 
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The issue is that some airports still require it at every visit, and it's completely inconsistent as to what is actually required and what isn't. Some kiosks are handling border control, others are simply doing registration there, and it's just a complete mess.

....

Again, the issue is that the implementation of the EES is so inconsistent. Some countries are collecting photos and fingerprints on every entry/exit, even when it's not required under the EES. Other countries with land borders aren't bothering with the biometric collection because it's simply not possible to do it, and there's really no reason whatsoever to systematically collect fingerprints/photos from every traveller on every occasion. I suspect that this is partially what is causing most of the chaos: unnecessary and repeated data collection from third country nationals.

How hard can this be?...

What's the latest on the implementation process from the EU?
 

Cloud Strife

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How hard can this be?...

I think the problem is that they were trying to integrate 30 Schengen states with individual systems into one big system, but with no agreement on how the system should look beyond registering people on a database and using it as a baseline for future entries and exits. Each member state was obliged to collect biometric data at registration, but (like many other things), they were free to go over and beyond the minimum.

So, we've ended up with the ridiculous situation that some countries want to collect biometric data each time, while others are happy to rely on the biometric records already collected previously.

If you look at how Lithuania is doing it, they have separate areas for registration at every border crossing. People park up, get out of their cars to register themselves, and then from then on, they go straight to the "all passports" booths in future. If they've parked up, they proceed to the "all passports" booths after registering. In both situations, there's no need to get out of the car. Everything is automated, so there's no need to mess around with additional registration/data collection at the booths, and they only ask the questions about your money/insurance/accommodation once during the registration process.

What's the latest on the implementation process from the EU?

The simple answer is that it's a mess and the EU is sticking their head in the sand. There are a lot of documented issues such as the kiosks failing, people not being able to be registered because of technical failures, the airlines are calling for the suspension of the EES (which seems to have happened already judging from the reports of people still getting stamps) and so on. Some of this is frankly unforgivable: it's hard to know exactly what France has been doing for the last few years and why they have such terrible problems. Spain isn't much better: it's obvious from what I can see that they've cut back dramatically on the amount of staff in the booths.

The EU has said that the member states can revert to physical stamping if the queues become unbearable as long as they collect data on the entry/exit of individual passengers, but it's very clear that a huge part of the issue is that national governments have cut back on the amount of staff at the borders. There are also some serious issues emerging on land borders such as the Croatian ones, because they don't have enough staff. It's often the case that a single lane is handling both EU and non-EU citizens, and with the single officer also handling registration, you can see how quickly queues build up.

For instance, take the nearest border crossing to Dubrovnik in Gornji Brgat. It's an increasingly popular crossing as people stay in the much cheaper Bosnia, and Trebinje is quite a charming town in its own right. Yet everyone is stuck in the same queue until about 30m before the checkpoint itself, because there simply isn't the space there to build more lanes or capacity. So, even EU citizens end up stuck in huge queues because of it, and there are only two lanes for cars in the last 30m: one for all passports (plus EES registration) and one for EU citizens.

In my humble opinion: the mistake was that the EU simply wasn't proscriptive enough. It should have been universally built on the Lithuanian model, that is, the kiosks are only for the first registration and that everyone should have been given a paper receipt confirming that they are registered on the system. Then all that would be needed is a quick check of the passport, either a scan in the computer (as it was) or a scan at a e-gate, with intelligence used to pull people aside for a second check as required.
 

Tetchytyke

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I think everyone is happy to blame EES for their own failures in planning, tbh. The real issues aren't with EES, the real issues are with the numbers of border control staff at border crossings.

A couple of weeks ago I went through Basel/Mulhouse and it took me 30 seconds, and I had to register as new for the system at the border desk. I went through at 11pm. My colleagues went through Basel/Mulhouse at 11am the next day and it took them the thick end of two hours. Same airport, same equipment. Difference was there were 6-7 border posts open when I went through, whereas there were only two open the next day, which just happened to be a Bank Holiday in both France and Switzerland.

But I'm sure everyone will blame EES.
 

Cloud Strife

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I think everyone is happy to blame EES for their own failures in planning, tbh. The real issues aren't with EES, the real issues are with the numbers of border control staff at border crossings.

I think it is a bit of both. The EES implementation is a mess because there isn't a standard process, but it's also very clear that national police forces have used this as an excuse to dramatically cut back on the amount of people working. I noticed this in Rome Fiumicino a few weeks ago: I wanted to go to the non-Schengen side of the airport to do some shopping, but the e-gates wouldn't accept my Polish ID card, I didn't have either passport on me, and there was a big queue to the only two manual desks open. There were a huge amount of desks available (possibly 12?), but only two were manned. So I didn't bother, because it was obvious that there would be big queues coming back into the Schengen side of the airport as well.
 

peteb

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I think everyone is happy to blame EES for their own failures in planning, tbh. The real issues aren't with EES, the real issues are with the numbers of border control staff at border crossings.

A couple of weeks ago I went through Basel/Mulhouse and it took me 30 seconds, and I had to register as new for the system at the border desk. I went through at 11pm. My colleagues went through Basel/Mulhouse at 11am the next day and it took them the thick end of two hours. Same airport, same equipment. Difference was there were 6-7 border posts open when I went through, whereas there were only two open the next day, which just happened to be a Bank Holiday in both France and Switzerland.

But I'm sure everyone will blame EES.
No I think it is the number of border control staff. Yesterday at Berlin airport there were four staff on for non EU, then there appeared to be shift change and we were down to three, then another just upped and left (toilet break?). So only two non EU border control at possibly one of the busiest times of the week, and a queue that kept growing as more planes landed. And it's not just planes from outside the EU, as the folks in front of me were American and had flown in from Prague****. But imagine if an airbus A380 lands, with 300+ passengers..............
Unfortunately it seemed the e-gates had failed too, as the EU queue with two border staff was getting lengthy.
As I said in my previous post, I don't think they ran my passport through the computer, as I handed it over, it was stamped, and handed back in 10 seconds. No chit-chat, questions about length of stay etc. The poor border officer looked fatigued.
****I couldn't understand how they needed to go through passport control from one EU nation to another, unless they'd only transferred in Prague maybe?
 

Belperpete

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My previous experiences at Prague have been relatively painless, but yesterday was a nightmare. They created two queues. The first queue for the kiosks, which snaked back right round through the terminal, and the second queue for the desks. To prevent the two queues from overlapping, they would only let people use the kiosks when there was space for them in the desk queue. Meaning that only about half the kiosks were in use. It took me the best part of two hours to get processed. At least my luggage was ready and waiting for me.

And, this was with all the desks open. I think that they have significantly underestimated how many booths needed at busy times. Perhaps they have underestimated the number of people who fail the kiosk registration, and so need their photos or fingerprint taking again at the desk?

The kiosk seemed to have trouble reading my fingerprints. I assumed it had finally managed it, when it instructed me to move onto the desks, but no, I had to have my fingerprint taken again by the guard. And I noticed that a significant number of other people were also having their fingerprints or photos redone, which was significantly delaying processing times at the desks. You weren't allowed to skip the kiosks, you were only allowed to join the queue for the desks after you had been to a kiosk, so this wasn't people skipping the kiosks.

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Ha! Three times now I've done stage 1. The problem is the staff not taking any notice when you tell them you've already done it. Spain & Portugal.
I think you may be confusing initial registration, which is only needed on your first visit, and confirmation of your biometric identity, which is needed at all subsequent entries. At many airports, the same kiosks are used for both functions, meaning you have to use them every time. Claiming that you have already registered on a previous trip won't be accepted, as you still need to confirm your fingerprint and photo, reason for this visit, etc.
 
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I think you may be confusing initial registration, which is only needed on your first visit, and confirmation of your biometric identity, which is needed at all subsequent entries. At many airports, the same kiosks are used for both functions, meaning you have to use them every time. Claiming that you have already registered on a previous trip won't be accepted, as you still need to confirm your fingerprint and photo, reason for this visit, etc.
When I went to Barcelona, the machine told me to go straight to the eGate - no photo or fingerprints were taken, and was the first time I'd been to Barcelona / Spain post EES
 

Ianigsy

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Have to admit I’ve been too ashamed to visit the EU since 2016, but it seems to me that a lot of the worst experiences seem to be happening at places like Paris, Milan and Barcelona where there’s an overlap between business and tourist traffic. Amsterdam in the morning is horrendous because of the number of people arriving on transatlantic flights with connections into the rest of Europe.
 

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