Interview Day, A Horrible Experience

[DSShaker]

I applied for a role , passed the test, passed the first video interview, and was invited to a face-to-face interview where I was to spend some time with the platform staff to make sure I understood the role I had applied for.

I arrived a bit too early on the day so decided to sit down on a bench and observe from a distance. Whilst there I saw what I suspected to be another interviewee arrive at the platform, but the staff greeted him as if they had known him for a while, so I was at that stage unsure who he actually was.

The time had come for me to make myself known and I was told to interact with the staff then I’d be called for the interview afterwards. I asked as many questions about the role as I could but its hard to interact with staff who are being constantly asked questions by customers. Then the other interviewee reappeared, and the staff all swarmed around him leaving me awkwardly stood like a spare part

I was eventually taken down to an interview room and the person taking me there kept asking who I knew at the company and seemed a bit shocked when I replied I didn’t know anyone

The interview itself was rushed and I could tell the interviewers had no real interest in myself and just wanted me out of there. The interview was around 10 minutes long and I was escorted out the area and thanked of attending. I was told the whole thing would take around an hour but I was in and out within 25 minutes

I ended up bumping into the other interviewee and asked him what the deal was, and he told me that he had family members that worked at the company and was told the interview etc was just a formality and that he’d already been told the job was his. I was inevitably told that I wasn’t right for the role and the whole experience has put me off applying for rails jobs in the future

 

[NorthernTech]

I had an MMI like that, asked me twice who I knew who worked at the company and each time I politely said that I didnt know anyone. Why should I need to know someone to be sat in that Psychometric Test interview?? She shouldn’t really be conducting an MMI like that, although no doubt could make her excuses, it just seemed unbelievably blatant the way she asked it and replied ‘oh, strange, most people seem to know someone at the company’ with a totally blank face. The lady conducting the MMI was very unwelcoming, which I believe is often the case with some MMI interviews, but others who were there the same week commented on here that she was very helpful to them and helped get better answers from them.

 

[Carl98k]

I had an MMI like that, asked me twice who I knew who worked at the company and each time I politely said that I didnt know anyone. Why should I need to know someone to be sat in that Psychometric Test interview?? She shouldn’t really be conducting an MMI like that, although no doubt could make her excuses, it just seemed unbelievably blatant the way she asked it and replied ‘oh, strange, most people seem to know someone at the company’ with a totally blank face. The lady conducting the MMI was very unwelcoming, which I believe is often the case with some MMI interviews, but others who were there the same week commented on here that she was very helpful to them and helped get better answers from them.

Did you pass the MMI?

 

[Vespa]

Closed shop interviews will mean skilled and suitable people will fall through the cracks in favour of somebody they know yet may not be skilled or competent.

 

[Economist]

I had an MMI like that, asked me twice who I knew who worked at the company and each time I politely said that I didnt know anyone. Why should I need to know someone to be sat in that Psychometric Test interview?? She shouldn’t really be conducting an MMI like that, although no doubt could make her excuses, it just seemed unbelievably blatant the way she asked it and replied ‘oh, strange, most people seem to know someone at the company’ with a totally blank face. The lady conducting the MMI was very unwelcoming, which I believe is often the case with some MMI interviews, but others who were there the same week commented on here that she was very helpful to them and helped get better answers from them.

When I did my MMI it was with an organisation external to the company I applied for. Given that a candidate is very limited in the number of attempts allowed at the psychometric testing stage including the MMI, that sounds especially bad.

There are of course some people on the railway with their immediate and extended family amongst their colleagues, I'm not in that particular group of people myself but I know a few who are.

 

[NorthernTech]

The mmi in question was in house, the 2 ladies conducting the test days were company employees. I went on to do the tests again with another company, again done fully in house and not the opc, but the second time seemed much more professional and more like being ‘tested’ rather than ‘interviewed’. Knowing my mmi examples first time were actually good examples from my employment I used them again in the second MMI and passed. Same answers to the same ’test’ questions, different outcome.. I later had a DMI which was obviously more like a traditional interview.

 

[66701GBRF]

Closed shop interviews will mean skilled and suitable people will fall through the cracks in favour of somebody they know yet may not be skilled or competent.

Maybe, but who’s to say that is the case here? Of course that doesn’t mean I agree with the way it happens.

 

[MiNi]

I applied for a role , passed the test, passed the first video interview, and was invited to a face-to-face interview where I was to spend some time with the platform staff to make sure I understood the role I had applied for.

I arrived a bit too early on the day so decided to sit down on a bench and observe from a distance. Whilst there I saw what I suspected to be another interviewee arrive at the platform, but the staff greeted him as if they had known him for a while, so I was at that stage unsure who he actually was.

The time had come for me to make myself known and I was told to interact with the staff then I’d be called for the interview afterwards. I asked as many questions about the role as I could but its hard to interact with staff who are being constantly asked questions by customers. Then the other interviewee reappeared, and the staff all swarmed around him leaving me awkwardly stood like a spare part

I was eventually taken down to an interview room and the person taking me there kept asking who I knew at the company and seemed a bit shocked when I replied I didn’t know anyone

The interview itself was rushed and I could tell the interviewers had no real interest in myself and just wanted me out of there. The interview was around 10 minutes long and I was escorted out the area and thanked of attending. I was told the whole thing would take around an hour but I was in and out within 25 minutes

I ended up bumping into the other interviewee and asked him what the deal was, and he told me that he had family members that worked at the company and was told the interview etc was just a formality and that he’d already been told the job was his. I was inevitably told that I wasn’t right for the role and the whole experience has put me off applying for rails jobs in the future

I'm afraid it happens a lot on the railways. A lot of the time people already on the railway or a friend of a friend will be already guaranteed the job. Older railway employees are 'given ' jobs to see out their careers. Doesn't seem fair but that's the way it is I'm afraid.

 

[yorksrob]

I have every sympathy for the OP.

I remember in my own job (not the railway) I'd been temping at it for a couple of years and had been doing the job and been effectively trained up on it. When it came to being made permanent, my employer had to go through a full recruitment process, even though I was the preferred candidate.

It seemed ridiculous that my experience couldn't be taken as a route to employment, and a waste of time for those others who applied. My employer had to jump through the hoops though.

 

[Horizon22]

Whilst the experience isn't a good one, I wouldn't say that should put you off applying for roles in future.

There's a lot of red flags there - for one I wouldn't be trying to do part of the "interview" on a platform with members of the customer around; absoutely fine to have you shadow someone but difficult to have that be formal. However my understanding is the "do you know anyone here?" is actually a fairly regular part of interview processes so that there's no bias but I'm not sure it's all that helpful. Unfortunately when they've got a good idea of who someone may want, it's difficult for those not on their radar; I've been on both the positive and negative side of these sorts of roles.

That being said, it should always be done with professionalism and I'm sure other interviews and applications will be much better for you, if you're still interested in the industry.

 

[SteveL9]

I am saddened to read this thread, this kind of practice should have been stamped out 30/40 years ago.

This really is the kind of the thing the unions should be looking really closely at.

 

[johntea]

This sadly isn't a railway specific issue, I work in public sector IT and had a period where I attended around 20 job interviews, one of which was a council interview that I travelled over 3 hours for to have a whole 10 minute interview then asked for feedback and they were totally honest in 'yep had an internal candidate all along just had to go through the motions'

At least you haven't had the rare phone call back where they've interviewed everyone and ended up hiring...nobody!

But yes don't let it put you off, the amount of 'dream jobs' I got knocked back from to end up in my current one which I thought I had no chance of getting, now I look back in hindsight and realise I probably wouldn't have been too happy in some of those jobs anyway!

 

[dk1]

I managed to get my job with BR because the Area Manager at the time drank in my parents pub. I messed the interview up by being honest first time round but he got me another one a couple of months later advising me to tell a little white lie about where I was living lol.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Closed shop interviews will mean skilled and suitable people will fall through the cracks in favour of somebody they know yet may not be skilled or competent.

It's also highly disrespectful of the time of the person attending for interview, and of their mental health, due to them being told they aren't good enough whereas if it was a fair process they would be seen as good enough.

Reputable companies don't do this and are just honest that a position is internal only when advertising it (it's not illegal to do this openly, and there's no particular reason you shouldn't do it if the intention is e.g. to allow for progression within the company). Was this a TOC, or perhaps one of the disreputable contract security companies? I can't help but think it might have been the latter, there is nothing good about these companies at all that I can see...

 

[AlterEgo]

I am saddened to read this thread, this kind of practice should have been stamped out 30/40 years ago.

This really is the kind of the thing the unions should be looking really closely at.

Um, they do, that is why current railway employees get preference!

 

[Chucky]

Nepotism and funny handshakes are alive and well on the railway I'm afraid. That's not to say others can't get on in the industry, but in many cases it's who you know, not what you know. It's not right and its not fair, but it's certainly true.

 

[dk1]

It will always be the case that if a highly regarded (or influential) employee has a son or daughter then they will stand an excellent chance of employment.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Um, they do, that is why current railway employees get preference!

I see no issue with this at all (career progression is important) but people shouldn't be invited to interview as a token - they should only invite people to interview who have a realistic chance of getting the position. It's disrespectful to do it for box-ticking.

 

[Falcon1200]

The OP has indeed had an unpleasant experience, but I can only say that interviews I was involved in, in recent years, on both sides of the desk, were always fair and above board; Which was not always the case in the past ! Way back in the BR days I was interviewed (for a clerical post), by one person in a corner of a busy open plan office, and it was clear early on that the job was already allocated and I was only there to make up the numbers.

OTOH, I interviewed people for a post in my office, all except one who we already knew were external applicants. To be totally fair, we asked every applicant the same, very basic, questions, eg what was the role in the railway of the organisation they hoped to work for, what were the major rail termini and train companies in their area, etc. The external applicants had difficulty answering, having obviously done not even basic research about their prospective employer, so the internal applicant got the job.

It will always be the case that if a highly regarded (or influential) employee has a son or daughter then they will stand an excellent chance of employment.

Which could be not just nepotism but the fact that an existing employee will be able to give their family member useful advice and information to assist them at interview.

 

[Snow1964]

It is fundamentally wrong, if a box ticking exercise involves bringing in another candidate, wasting their time, letting them see another candidate being treated differently.

The management and Unions representing that location, should be ashamed of themselves for allowing that kind of thing to happen. The Union has potentially lost a new member due to accepting this dreadful recruitment process too.

 

[AlterEgo]

The Union has potentially lost a new member due to accepting this dreadful recruitment process too.

How have they done that? Someone is still filling the job.

 

[dk1]

It is fundamentally wrong, if a box ticking exercise involves bringing in another candidate, wasting their time, letting them see another candidate being treated differently.

The management and Unions representing that location, should be ashamed of themselves for allowing that kind of thing to happen. The Union has potentially lost a new member due to accepting this dreadful recruitment process too.

The management or union member may have that friend or family member as an interview so will hardly be ashamed.

You've completely lost me on the lost new member post.

 

[Fokx]

Although it won’t help you finding a role in the company you applied for, I’d strongly recommend giving the company feedback of how your interview was carried out and how disappointed and I imagine angry about the whole experience in hope that it may improve for interviewees in the future.

Please don’t let this experience taint your view on railway recruitment, it’s not always like that. I entered the industry not knowing a single person in the industry, and having no knowledge at all of how it works, other than as a passenger.

Honestly your entire story is shocking from start to finish.

 

[DSShaker]

It's also highly disrespectful of the time of the person attending for interview, and of their mental health, due to them being told they aren't good enough whereas if it was a fair process they would be seen as good enough.

Reputable companies don't do this and are just honest that a position is internal only when advertising it (it's not illegal to do this openly, and there's no particular reason you shouldn't do it if the intention is e.g. to allow for progression within the company). Was this a TOC, or perhaps one of the disreputable contract security companies? I can't help but think it might have been the latter, there is nothing good about these companies at all that I can see...

It was a TOC

Although it won’t help you finding a role in the company you applied for, I’d strongly recommend giving the company feedback of how your interview was carried out and how disappointed and I imagine angry about the whole experience in hope that it may improve for interviewees in the future.

Please don’t let this experience taint your view on railway recruitment, it’s not always like that. I entered the industry not knowing a single person in the industry, and having no knowledge at all of how it works, other than as a passenger.

Honestly your entire story is shocking from start to finish.

I have considered sending them an email about my experience, though I don't think it'll make much difference in the future


I am more disappointed that I made an effort to be prepared for every aspect of the interview only to really be there to just make up the numbers

 

[L401CJF]

I was asked at my conductor interview if I knew anybody who worked there - the answer was no, but it didnt affect my chances so some TOCs do play fair!

In my previous job driving buses I was asked if I knew someone during interview. The answer was yes - as a friend of mine had given me the application and handed it in to the manager - they asked him about me and he gave a good word.

I have also been on the other end of the stick where in my previous role somebody had said they knew me so I was asked about them after their interview. I gave a good word and they got the job.

Its a pretty common question and I suppose quite helpful to management if people are able to give a sort of "personal reference" so to speak.

Pretty appalling experience for the OP and I have never experienced a railway interview (or any) like that - all have been very professional and I have always felt I had as much chance as anybody else. I would personally consider getting intouch with their HR/recruitment department and voicing my concerns. Its all very well giving preference to an internal candidate if theyre suitable for the role, but the OP should still be given a full professional interview in my opinion!

My advice would be dont let this put you off, all bar 1 on my conductor course were external candidates. Best of luck in the future!

 

[43066]

I am saddened to read this thread, this kind of practice should have been stamped out 30/40 years ago.

This really is the kind of the thing the unions should be looking really closely at.

Um, they do, that is why current railway employees get preference!

Are we talking here about people already in the industry being preferred due to their experience, or about people being brought in just because their mate/relative already works there? The former is par for the course, just as it is in many industries.

Not saying the latter doesn’t happen (it very much does!) but it is via people knowing each other than anything to do with the unions who, quite rightly, have no involvement in recruitment.

The *hope*, of course, is that the contact only gets the person an interview and the recruitment process is fully objective after that point.

 

[Horizon22]

This sadly isn't a railway specific issue, I work in public sector IT and had a period where I attended around 20 job interviews, one of which was a council interview that I travelled over 3 hours for to have a whole 10 minute interview then asked for feedback and they were totally honest in 'yep had an internal candidate all along just had to go through the motions'

At least you haven't had the rare phone call back where they've interviewed everyone and ended up hiring...nobody!

But yes don't let it put you off, the amount of 'dream jobs' I got knocked back from to end up in my current one which I thought I had no chance of getting, now I look back in hindsight and realise I probably wouldn't have been too happy in some of those jobs anyway!

I've done interviews myself and to be fair I've gone somewhat "through the motions" before, even though we did everythiong properly; the first candidate scored the highest on the assessments and had a stunning interview, to the extent we knew nobody was going to beat them.

It's important to at least make someone feel good about the interview as it can be very nervous for many and possibly life-changing which is why I've always taken it seriously when I've been involved. Sadly others don't share that same mentality.

 

[pdeaves]

'yep had an internal candidate all along just had to go through the motions'

I supposed overall it's better to hear that (however disappointing) than some other made-up reason for rejection. You can use the truth to inform how you prepare for future opportunities better than working with a lie ('you weren't very confident', or whatever) when that particular aspect was, actually, perfectly fine.

 

[LCC106]

A few points come to mind:

There is no need to advertise externally if you want internal applications only.

For safety critical roles such as guard, driver etc. the individual still has to pass the psychometrics.

If you feel so strongly I would encourage you to email the recruitment team to relay your experience but keep emotions out of it. It’s ok to say you were disappointed as part of constructive feedback but if you say angry etc. you’re making a name for yourself in future.

 

[Snow1964]

What is strange is the Op said had a first interview (remote) and this was a second interview.

I know of organisations that seem to have a minimum number of candidates for first interview (even if they have a preferred candidate), but have never heard of one holding second interviews for other candidates once they have made mind up. Normal practice seems to be not to contact the second choice until preferred candidate has accepted, in case they decline having found better offer in meantime.



When I was an interviewer, we always asked every candidate same basic questions to make sure it was fair, never cut interview short even if we already had obvious candidate (although this did happen once when a candidate said they thought job was different, and didn’t want to continue interview). It seems like this was very unprofessionally run.