Interrail vs ALR

[gabrielhj07]

Afternoon all,

I was recently pondering the benefits of an Interrail GB Pass against an All Line Rover.

Apart from the possible need to prove residency/citizenship in another country, what are the drawbacks? At a glance it looks like the same travel ability, but without the peak time restrictions and at half the price. What am I missing?

Cheers

 

[MrJeeves]

Apart from the possible need to prove residency/citizenship in another country, what are the drawbacks?

Well, exactly that.

You have to live abroad to buy and use it for more than 2 days in GB.

Other than that, it's far less prohibitive than an All Line Rover, just like BritRail is as well.

 

[gabrielhj07]

Well, exactly that.

You have to live abroad to buy and use it for more than 2 days in GB.

Other than that, it's far less prohibitive than an All Line Rover, just like BritRail is as well.

Thanks

If that's the only drawback then it seems remarkable value.

 

[The exile]

Well, exactly that.

You have to live abroad to buy and use it for more than 2 days in GB.

Not that I remember ever being asked to prove it (either on purchase or use!).

 

[MrJeeves]

Not that I remember ever being asked to prove it (either on purchase or use!).

I have on many UK operators, for the benefit of other readers.

The first time I was asked was for entry into the Birmingham Avanti Lounge.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Apart from the possible need to prove residency/citizenship in another country, what are the drawbacks? At a glance it looks like the same travel ability, but without the peak time restrictions and at half the price. What am I missing?

Nothing. Whether you go for the BritRail or the Interrail GB pass comes down to price and check both. At the minute BritRail is cheaper.

You are not entitled to use either pass if you live in the UK though. And yes, they do check. And beat in mind it is residency not nationality; a foreign national living in the UK is not permitted to use the ticket.

They are very good value tickets though. I like using them when I’m in the UK.

I have on many UK operators, for the benefit of other readers.

I haven’t regularly had to, most train staff look at it with a confused look and then move on. But the ones who know what it is do check.

And it only takes one to check and you’re in a world of pain. You can’t feign ignorance either because you really have to go out of your way to buy the ticket if you’re in the UK; the Britrail website is geoblocked for UK IPs, for instance.

And when you’re buying either pass you can’t put in a UK billing address.

 

[MrJeeves]

And when you’re buying either pass you can’t put in a UK billing address.

I have never had an issue doing this with Interrail, personally.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I have never had an issue doing this with Interrail, personally.

Specifically the Interrail One Country GB pass, UK doesn’t show up as a billing country. It does if you’re buying an Interrail Global or a one country pass for another country.

I may be being blind/misremembering, though. I normally get Britrail as it is marginally cheaper for my usage, as I normally use a consecutive pass.

 

[gabrielhj07]

Specifically the Interrail One Country GB pass, UK doesn’t show up as a billing country. It does if you’re buying an Interrail Global or a one country pass for another country.

The UK doesn't appear as a Country of Residence, but the Billing Address is marked "Optional"

 

[The exile]

I have on many UK operators, for the benefit of other readers.

The first time I was asked was for entry into the Birmingham Avanti Lounge.

Just out of interest - what evidence of residence abroad are you expected to provide? A passport doesn’t show residence.

 

[MrJeeves]

Just out of interest - what evidence of residence abroad are you expected to provide? A passport doesn’t show residence.

The passport and your word is sufficient, if you live there.

If you had a British passport but lived abroad, you'd be expected to provide some kind of additional evidence (e.g., use the number from a foreign residency card instead).

Section 5.2 of the Pass Conditions of Use goes into detail about "Determining your Country of Residence":

5.2. Determining your Country of Residence

5.2.1. Your Country of Residence is the country in which you have your place of residence on the first day of the Validity Period of your Pass.

5.2.2. Your Country of Residence must be nominated at the time when your Pass is ordered.

5.2.3. If your Country of Residence is the same country of your passport or legal equivalent, you may prove your Country of Residence by presenting your valid passport or legal equivalent.

5.2.4. If the country in which your place of residence is different to the country of your valid passport or legal equivalent, subject to a) and b) directly below, the country where your place of residence is takes priority and should be nominated as your Country of Residence:

a) You must be able to prove your residency by means of official residence documents issued by the government, through official government documents or official governmental online sources. These documents vary from country to country.​

• Your residency document(s) must clearly prove that you are registered to live in the country where you effectively live on the first date of the selected Validity Period.​

• E-visas that grant a right of residence for a period of 6-months or more are an acceptable proof of residence for that country, provided that you travel with your Pass during the period your e-visa is valid and you continue to maintain your place of residence in that country. However, non-location based e-residency documents are not accepted as valid proof of where your place of residence is as they do not reflect your actual physical place of residence. Accordingly, they cannot be used for the purposes of proving your Country of Residence.​

b) If you do not hold any of the means of proof indicated in a) directly above, your Country of Residence must be the country of your valid passport or legal equivalent.​

​

5.2.5. We may, at any time, ask you to provide additional proof of your effective place of residence. If you are unable to, do not or refuse to provide additional proof of where you live, we may, at our discretion, determine that your effective place of living is different to your nominated Country of Residence. If we determine that your effective place of residence is different to your nominated Country of Residence, we may block you from further use of your Pass and/or purchasing any Eurail and Interrail Pass in the future.

https://www.interrail.com/content/dam/_new-structure/doc/terms/v17_Eurail_and_Interrail_Pass_Conditions_of_Use.pdf

As with many things, it relies on trust at the end of the day. If you use a pass like this to commute, I would guess staff would quite quickly become familiar with you, and probably not in a good way. And abuse of the passes is only more likely to make their conditions for use more arduous, or maybe RDG would pull out of the programme entirely like they did many years ago.

 

[A S Leib]

Proof of residence with a BT* postcode would be useful to take with for Northern Ireland residents hoping to do large numbers of journeys in Great Britain.

*Are Crown Dependency residents counted as GB, supposed to get Eurail rather than Interrail passes due to not being in the UK and not having their own railways in Interrail, or something else?

 

[MrJeeves]

Proof of residence with a BT* postcode would be useful to take with for Northern Ireland residents hoping to do large numbers of journeys in Great Britain.

Except Interrail state that NI residents are considered as "Great Britain" while the NI railway network is considered as Ireland!

This does mean NI residents get unlimited travel on their home railway network, but only 2 days within GB.

I believe the Crown Dependencies are also considered "Great Britain", too.

 

[plugwash]

What am I missing?

Foreign buisnessmen and even time-poor, cash rich foreign tourists tend not to travel Long distances by rail. So programmes like Interrail, Britrail, JR pass and so-on can target time-rich, cash-poor visitors while presenting relatively little revenue risk.

On the other hand domestic buisness travellers, long distance commuters and other non-discretionary travellers represent a large part of the railways revenue. If the ALR was any cheaper it would risk seriously cutting in to those revenue streams.

 

[Mike395]

Except Interrail state that NI residents are considered as "Great Britain" while the NI railway network is considered as Ireland!

This does mean NI residents get unlimited travel on their home railway network, but only 2 days within GB.

I believe the Crown Dependencies are also considered "Great Britain", too.

I have not verified this but I have seen a report of NI-based residents getting an extra day for use in GB, if true that's presumably by recognition that it's a fair trek when using it as a land bridge to the rest of Europe.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Britrail, which I normally use, has more straightforward eligibility rules: you cannot be a resident of the UK. This is unfair on Northern Ireland residents, but it is clear. I prove my residency with my Isle of Man passport (which is different to a UK passport) and/or my Isle of Man driving licence, together with a rates bill and/or my income tax letter.

Interrail's conditions have a few omissions in them and this leads to a contradiction. You can buy an Interrail pass if your country of residence is on the drop-down list and that's what the website says at a high level is the eligibility. It's just in the T&Cs that the countries are individually listed, with the rule that you need to buy a Eurail pass if your country isn't listed.

But some of the semi-autonomous dependencies are only listed in the drop-down list for Interrail: this includes the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands, Aland, Greenland, and Svalbard. They're not in the Eurail list.

It's worth noting that, for the GB-only Interrail pass, Isle of Man (and Jersey and Guernsey) is in the drop-down list as a country of residence but the UK is not. This implies to me that Isle of Man residents can buy a GB-only Interrail pass. It's not something I've tested though, as I'm normally travelling on consecutive days the Britrail pass is better value.

Except Interrail state that NI residents are considered as "Great Britain" while the NI railway network is considered as Ireland!

It's more fundamental than that: the passes are based on geography, with the islands of Ireland and Great Britain having separate passes. But the eligibility is based on country, and that lists the country as the United Kingdom. Northern Ireland is in the UK but isn't in Great Britain.

I wonder what would happen if you chose Ireland as your country of residence? It wouldn't be completely untrue.

Are Crown Dependency residents counted as GB, supposed to get Eurail rather than Interrail passes due to not being in the UK and not having their own railways in Interrail, or something else?

I believe the Crown Dependencies are also considered "Great Britain", too.

See above: we're neither in Great Britain nor in the United Kingdom, we're listed separately on their drop-down lists, so we can buy the Interrail pass. It's just that they've missed out us semi-autonomous dependencies (except, curiously, Gibraltar) from their T&Cs.

 

[MrJeeves]

See above: we're neither in Great Britain nor in the United Kingdom, we're listed separately on their drop-down lists, so we can buy the Interrail pass. It's just that they've missed out us semi-autonomous dependencies (except, curiously, Gibraltar) from their T&Cs.

But if you choose Jersey, IoM, etc, I understand your pass will be issued with "Residency: Great Britain" on it just like anyone who says they are a resident of the United Kingdom, or is that incorrect?

I'd be interested to get a hand on a barcode for a pass issued to a Crown Dependency resident if not, to see what's in the list of valid/invalid countries within the barcode data.

 

[Tetchytyke]

But if you choose Jersey, IoM, etc, I understand your pass will be issued with "Residency: Great Britain" on it just like anyone who says they are a resident of the United Kingdom, or is that incorrect?

I've not tested it, to be honest. For my usage in GB I prefer Britrail, which does say Isle of Man on it. I've looked into the Interrail GB-only pass a couple of times but they only offer flexi-passes through Interrail.

But IOM, Jersey, and Guernsey are all listed on the drop-down list of countries of residence for a GB-only pass, whereas United Kingdom is not listed on the drop-down list. If I try, say, a France-only pass, then United Kingdom appears in the drop-down list (and France does not).

So one must assume that there is a difference, otherwise it would surely block IOM/Jersey/Guernsey from the drop-down list when choosing a GB-only pass.

 

[KnobbyGB]

Going back to the OPs question I thought I'd post some of my experience:
I have used Interrail tickets on the UK on 5 or 6 occasions in the last few years, both Global and Country Specific passes, 1st and 2nd class. I am a British citizen living permanently abroad. I've never had any problems but I'd make the following points:

You really MUST have the proper ID to prove you live outside the UK. A Passport is generally no good for this as it says nothing about place of residency. If you're a Brit living in Europe you need a residency permit. Having said that, I have never had my residency questioned by rail staff in the UK. I often chat with guards and other staff and my accent makes it clear I'm a local, at least originally. Still nobody has ever asked for my residency document. I actually cancelled my last trip because my residency permit was in for renewal and the new one didn't arrive on time. I had a long conversation with the excellent Interrail customer support people and they made it clear there was no way around this and I simply would not be able to use the pass. They used to allow a driving license as proof of residency. I do have a Greek license, but this is not longer allowed, unfortunately. I probably would have got away with it but the stress would have ruined my trip.

The passes are indeed great value in the UK, with the price of the all-line rover being so ridiculously high. In case anyone wondered, the Interrail pass is valid without restriction on all National Rail services except Gatwick Express and Heathrow Express. For the two sleeper services, you can travel but you need to make a free reservation in the seated section or pay a supplemet for an actual bed. Eurostar services are available with a supplement (if you have a Global pass). There are no other restrictions at all! To me, the time restrictions on an ALR make it totally useless, even if it wasn't so expensive!

Ticket scanning: The Interrail pass will NOT scan at ay ticket barrier in the UK in my experience. The same is true with the machines the guards use on the train. They usually just look confused and move on but I've had a couple ask me to scroll down and show that I've actually entered the details of the train I'm on. I expected to come across staff who weren't even aware of the ticket, partiularly on obscure local services or branch lines away from tourist areas, but I've had no problems yet.

Freebies: I've had no problems entering 1st class lounges with the pass although I've only done so a couple of times (Euston, Edinburgh Waverly). I've also had no problems receiving all the free offerings onboard when using a 1st class pass. Be aware though that there are a few restrictions. I thik Hull Trains don't allow lounge access or free food to pass holders (that's probably true for ALR holsers too).

For somebody spending an extended time in the UK, the passes represent REALLY good value - far more than the short ones. The monthly or even quarterly passes are something I will definitely use if I ever go back for an extended period.

Sorry for the long replay and if anyone has any questions, feel free to PM me.

So to answer the OP - you're not missing anything. Go for it! But please don't abuse the system if you really do live in the UK. You might get away with it but I hope you don't. You'll be spoiling it for the rest of us if they make it more restrictive.

 

[MrJeeves]

is valid without restriction on all National Rail services except Gatwick Express

Interrail is entirely valid on Gatwick Express services. It's only Heathrow Express where it isn't valid.

The same is true with the machines the guards use on the train.

It's about 50-50. Train operators (and staff) which use TTK (The Ticket Keeper) will be able to scan the passes, but no other validation software in use can.

 

[43096]

On the other hand domestic buisness travellers, long distance commuters and other non-discretionary travellers represent a large part of the railways revenue. If the ALR was any cheaper it would risk seriously cutting in to those revenue streams.

Which is just a long-handed way of saying the fares system is an utter mess.

I can’t understand why anyone would want an ALR these days!

 

[A S Leib]

! To me, the time restrictions on an ALR make it totally useless, even if it wasn't so expensive!

Enough of my unvisited areas are in the south west and south Wales that I probably could get excellent value out of an ALR without it being repetitive; the problem is that I don't think it would be the cheapest option (especially as I've always had the feeling that the ALR, unlike Interrail passes, or x in y days rovers, is aimed more at people trying to get as much mileage in as possible rather than spending more time seeing places).

 

[Haywain]

To me, the time restrictions on an ALR make it totally useless, even if it wasn't so expensive!

It's problematic for anyone based in the London area, but much less so for much of the rest of the country.

 

[A S Leib]

It's problematic for anyone based in the London area, but much less so for much of the rest of the country.

The CrossCountry New Street restriction isn't brilliant for much of the Midlands, and seems especially punitive for Nuneaton – Birmingham passengers. The difference between that and the southern WC/M/ECML ones is that an anytime single from Derby or Cheltenham, let alone Tamworth, is much than, say, an anytime single from King's Cross to York.*

*I know split ticketing with rovers generally only needs a split at the boundary, not at a stopping station; would only one to Peterborough be necessary?

 

[Haywain]

and seems especially punitive for Nuneaton – Birmingham passengers

But only Nuneaton to Birmingham - north and south are available from Nuneaton as are a number of routes via Coventry and Leicester.

 

[gabrielhj07]

So to answer the OP - you're not missing anything. Go for it! But please don't abuse the system if you really do live in the UK. You might get away with it but I hope you don't. You'll be spoiling it for the rest of us if they make it more restrictive.

No interest in that but thank you for your informative reply.