Internet pornography

[Oswyntail]

THey advocate peacefull life but breed hatred into the belivers. Religious texts preach that war is bad, but then most wars are releated to religion. The problem is that a large amount of belivers think that only their belif is true, correct and just and try and force their views onto others often using violence.

Christianity is supposed to be about peace, love and understanding but througout the years missionaries have been sent to force their religion onto others, different sects of the Christian Church don't agree with each other and fight with each other.

A great man once said "Religion is the Opiuim of the Masses"

The problem is actually about human nature. You have a group (say a group of like-minded people) and it soon becomes an organisation; with an organisation comes organisers, and a structure; with structure comes a sense of top and bottom, and competition to get to the top. So all too frequently, over-competitive people get to the "top", and feel the need to assert themselves; and other people see the group as a means of achieving status. So, too often the least suitable people reach the top of organisations - hence the historical connection of religion and violence. But it is a logical fallacy: these people used religion to achieve their ends, not vice versa. And i would also suggest that, for every religious war-leader there have been hundreds of non-religious ones.
And, as for Marx, the passage that quote comes from is highly complex and does not necessarily mean that the religious beliefs are bad.
But, as i hinted earlier, this is getting a long way from the thread topic, and i would hate the thread to degenerate into a pro/anti religious argument that can never truly be resolved.

 

[Anon Mouse]

The problem is actually about human nature. You have a group (say a group of like-minded people) and it soon becomes an organisation; with an organisation comes organisers, and a structure; with structure comes a sense of top and bottom, and competition to get to the top. So all too frequently, over-competitive people get to the "top", and feel the need to assert themselves; and other people see the group as a means of achieving status. So, too often the least suitable people reach the top of organisations - hence the historical connection of religion and violence. But it is a logical fallacy: these people used religion to achieve their ends, not vice versa. And i would also suggest that, for every religious war-leader there have been hundreds of non-religious ones.
And, as for Marx, the passage that quote comes from is highly complex and does not necessarily mean that the religious beliefs are bad.
But, as i hinted earlier, this is getting a long way from the thread topic, and i would hate the thread to degenerate into a pro/anti religious argument that can never truly be resolved.

to be fair, you could replace the word religion with socialisim and you have summed up The Soviet Union!

As I said before I respect people who have got religious views, but I hate the bigotry and wish to convert non belivers that often comes with religion. I have some very strong left wing beliefs but, I would not advocate the banning of religion. The Peoples Republic of China tried it during the Cultural Revolution....and we all saw what a disaster that was.

Back onto the original topic, I belive Porn is like Religion, in the case of if you dont like it you dont have to partake in it. I just dont think the Christian Right and the Hippie Left should prevent those who wish to look at it from doing so.

 

[Nick W]

In my opinion organised religion has caused more division, death and destruction than porn could ever do so lets ban religion on the internet. or maybe give it the .GOD domain then at least sensible rational people who don't live their lives by a fictional book can easily avoid it.

I'm not aware of any theology scholars, atheist or otherwise who believe the bible is a fictional book. Can you name any or suggest why they might be irrational?

Religious texts preach that war is bad, but then most wars are releated to religion

Can you name any in the past 100 years? Should you wish to run with "Islamic" terrorism, isn't this more a case of people shaping religion to their viewpoints rather than their viewpoints to religion?

Christianity is supposed to be about peace, love and understanding but througout the years missionaries have been sent to force their religion onto others, different sects of the Christian Church don't agree with each other and fight with each other.

From what I've heard of mission work, the natives tend to not just be receptive but actually help with the translation of the bible in to the native language. In many cases the language has no script, and so the mission workers are actually bringing reading and writing to the people. I'm sure we can agree the latter is a good thing.

I'm aware of hostility between churches, and would certainly recommend avoiding any such church.

But, as i hinted earlier, this is getting a long way from the thread topic, and i would hate the thread to degenerate into a pro/anti religious argument that can never truly be resolved.

Fair point, it's just disappointing to that that, often through no point of their own, people seem to have very wrong views of Christianity which means that they view such articles as the OP posted as "Christians want to control what we can access" rather than "Christians have something amazing they'd like to share that would make everyone better off in the short and long run".

Back onto the original topic, I belive Porn is like Religion, in the case of if you dont like it you dont have to partake in it.

Except that it's not. Choosing whether to view porn is a case of asking if it benefits you. Choosing whether or not to follow a religion is a matter of checking it out and seeing it it's true or not.

 

[ainsworth74]

Can you name any in the past 100 years?

The 1948 Arab Israeli War, The Six Day War and The Yom Kippur War would be the first to spring immediately to mind.

 

[whhistle]

Porn wrecks lives and relationships?? It can also greatly IMPROVE relationships and lives.

Really? Seriously? You think this?

While some shows give hints and tips on how to be the best with your partner, most "porn" is simply a way to be turned on by someone else.

I want my partner to be turned on by me. I don't like the thought that she would prefer to watch some other guy and get pleasure from that. While I am sure mutual watching would excite us both, I still don't think it is right.

 

[SS4]

I'm not aware of any theology scholars, atheist or otherwise who believe the bible is a fictional book. Can you name any or suggest why they might be irrational?

There is no reliable evidence for huge swathes of it.

Can you name any in the past 100 years? Should you wish to run with "Islamic" terrorism, isn't this more a case of people shaping religion to their viewpoints rather than their viewpoints to religion?

Nonetheless, Islamic terrorists are able to use Islam as justification for their actions and unquestioning faith enables them to do so. ainsworth74 has answered some. I would add most of the Holocaust to that list since people were killed simply for being Jews.

From what I've heard of mission work, the natives tend to not just be receptive but actually help with the translation of the bible in to the native language. In many cases the language has no script, and so the mission workers are actually bringing reading and writing to the people. I'm sure we can agree the latter is a good thing.

I agree but are they bringing informed choice too? I highly doubt it. Uganda is notoriously homophobic which is a direct result of religious teaching.

I'm aware of hostility between churches, and would certainly recommend avoiding any such church.

I've never been to Glasgow so I'm hoping a local can clarify but essentially the question "Rangers or Celtic" is "Protestant or Catholic" showing the pervasive influence of religion, even in this case it's the same religion!

Fair point, it's just disappointing to that that, often through no point of their own, people seem to have very wrong views of Christianity which means that they view such articles as the OP posted as "Christians want to control what we can access" rather than "Christians have something amazing they'd like to share that would make everyone better off in the short and long run".

That second quote explains a lot of the anger towards Christians and Christianity: The constant need to preach and evangelise. I don't care if an adult is religious (I do feel sorry for them though). What I cannot abide by is the way that innocent children are brainwashed into believing, that I would like to see outlawed, make it illegal to follow a religion before one is 18 since suffrage is based on being mature enough to make an informed choice

Except that it's not. Choosing whether to view porn is a case of asking if it benefits you. Choosing whether or not to follow a religion is a matter of checking it out and seeing it it's true or not.

It is. I could simply change porn to religion in your first sentence. I am a believer that necessity is the mother of invention. People wanted to see porn so porn was made, essentially it's a service. People wanted to understand the world around them so religion was invented.

I will let dictionary.com state my viewpoint on religion:
Delusion (noun) - "a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact".


Like Osywntail I do believe this thread has gone off topic though

 

[junglejames]

ach well, off th Hell I go.....at least its nice and warm.

Its interesting, the Bible is all about forgiveness but in the same breath you are condemmed into Hell.

well, if you want to belive that stuff, then you are entitled to that and I respect you for that. The same way as I respect those who belive that a Haggis is a wee beastie with three legs and who belive in the Loch Ness Monster!

I always thought a haggis was a wee beastie with 2 legs, 1 shorter than the other!!
As for Loch Ness Monster. Nobody knows for sure, but its brilliant to say it does exist. I will always say it exists, but i really dont know to be fair!!

As for porn and religion. They are both the same thing. Both can be good, both can be bad. In reality they should both be a good addition to society, but unfortunately some people are not capable of allowing this. ie the extremists who use religion as an excuse to kill people, and those that allow pornography to go too far and ruin their lives.
Also, both can be addictive. These religious extremists seem to be far too addicted to religion, and what they think it means, just as some people get far too addicted to porn.
Crikey, can you imagine going into a church and saying what ive just said. Porn and religion are the same thing!! But hey, thats how i see it. You could also put drink into that category. Drugs as well, as long as its for medicinal purposes. Class A's are different as they dont have any good uses.

 

[Nick W]

The 1948 Arab Israeli War, The Six Day War and The Yom Kippur War would be the first to spring immediately to mind.

OK so there's a territorial dispute with both sides' claims stemming partially from religious texts in one part of the world, I'll give you that.

There is no reliable evidence for huge swathes of it.

Firstly, at the time many parts of it were written, few other things were written. Secondly, reliable archaeology evidence has never contradicted it. Thirdly, many parts for which there is reliable evidence to back it up itself backs up other parts. Fourthly, surely the rational thing do to is to come to a conclusion based on the available evidence?

Nonetheless, Islamic terrorists are able to use Islam as justification for their actions and unquestioning faith enables them to do so. ainsworth74 has answered some. I would add most of the Holocaust to that list since people were killed simply for being Jews.

True, and capitalism and democracy have equally been used to justify similar wrongdoings. Nazism was a very bad ideology, not a religion.

I agree but are they bringing informed choice too? I highly doubt it.

They would have been more informed than people on this forum who have read less of the bible that them but obviously less informed that a person who spent enough time studying multiple texts here.

Uganda is notoriously homophobic which is a direct result of religious teaching.

Are you sure it was a direct result of religious teaching or a direct result of the corrupt teaching of people with evil intent in the name of religion?

I've never been to Glasgow so I'm hoping a local can clarify but essentially the question "Rangers or Celtic" is "Protestant or Catholic" showing the pervasive influence of religion, even in this case it's the same religion!

Do you think that most of the people who self-identify as Protestant or Catholic actually believe and practice what's in the bible?

That second quote explains a lot of the anger towards Christians and Christianity: The constant need to preach and evangelise.

I would disagree - on this forum multiple people express their views for different things and engage with one another. What angers people is the claim that Christianity is more than a view point and the only consistent responses is to deny it outright, misrepresent it or engage with it. The first two easily lead to anger.

I could simply change porn to religion in your first sentence.

Not really. If a religion is false it's of no benefit for all, if it's true it's of infinite benefit for all.

I will let dictionary.com state my viewpoint on religion:
Delusion (noun) - "a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact".

Not me - I would be delighted to reason or be confronted with a fact.

Have to say I'm surprised by some of the responses. I thought that everyone would agree the religion is either of 0% benefit (ie false) or 100% benefit (ie true).

 

[90019]

Firstly, at the time many parts of it were written, few other things were written.

Just because few things were written doesn't make what was written any more reliable.

Secondly, reliable archaeology evidence has never contradicted it.

So, because it hasn't been contradicted, it must be true?

Thirdly, many parts for which there is reliable evidence to back it up itself backs up other parts.

If there is conclusive evidence to show what happened then that's fair enough.

Fourthly, surely the rational thing do to is to come to a conclusion based on the available evidence?

No.
You only come to a conclusion if the evidence is conclusive, if it's not, then it's no more than an educated guess.

 

[Oswyntail]

Just because few things were written doesn't make what was written any more reliable.

True, but in the absence of contradictory evidence, it also doesn't mean it is untrue. Besides, there is a tendency to ignore the split between the historical sections - most of which seem to be a fairly good record, backed up with external evidence (despite what the TV tells you) - and the "philosophy". The latter is not "True" or "False" except inasmuch as it provides philosophical answers to philosophical questions. And that is the basis of religion, IMHO

So, because it hasn't been contradicted, it must be true?

Actually, this appears to be the standard scientific argument in some areas. EG gravity - because the ball has dropped every time to date, does that mean it will do so next time? All attempts at stating "Scientific" truth have to be prefaced with a caveat that they are based on observation to date and may be disproved by the next observation.
....

No.
You only come to a conclusion if the evidence is conclusive, if it's not, then it's no more than an educated guess.

Lovely word, "conclusive". Again IMHO, it can only mean "It convinces me". It is subjective, not objective.

Can we get back to porn, please? Whhistle - I would suggest that relationships can be improved with porn if it suggests new ventures that both (All!) parties can agree might be enjoyable.

 

[43021HST]

Do the old M&S food adverts count as porn, I find them a strange turn on

 

[CarterUSM]

Do the old M&S food adverts count as porn, I find them a strange turn on

If they do, then the old cadburys caramel ads with the female deer must count also. What a voice. B-)

 

[Anon Mouse]

Do the old M&S food adverts count as porn, I find them a strange turn on

Its the M&S undies adverts that turn me on, and also that car advert with Dita Von Tease, yum yum yum!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If they do, then the old cadburys caramel ads with the female deer must count also. What a voice. B-)

Oh yes indeedy!

 

[Ivo]

Surprised no-one's mentioned that old Flake advert yet.

 

[Anon Mouse]

Surprised no-one's mentioned that old Flake advert yet.

purr purr purr

My Lordz! below is the sexiest chocolate ad I have ever seen!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzOchsY4RhQ

 

[Dennis]

There is one aspect of some porn sites which I do find disturbing, usually found in the amateur category - shots in which the subject blatantly would not expected / consented to posting, things like holiday shots, webcam caps, candids and the like.

Bit of an invasion of privacy and could cause big problems for the subjects in the future if discovered. Candid are obviously difficult to avoid, but their is an important lesson; be careful what you expose!

 

[Geezertronic]

I'm still trying to find the section in the bible that deals with dinosaurs. Suffice to say I am not trying to find a porn site with dinosaurs in though

 

[SS4]

I'm still trying to find the section in the bible that deals with dinosaurs. Suffice to say I am not trying to find a porn site with dinosaurs in though

Rule 34?
They could make a video of the arsenal goalkeeper in the carling cup final and upload it as porn - he certainly got ****ed

 

[Nick W]

I'm still trying to find the section in the bible that deals with dinosaurs. Suffice to say I am not trying to find a porn site with dinosaurs in though

Noah lived 950 years - would he be called a dinosaur?

On a more serious note, some would claim that Job 40 is talking about a dinosaur:
“Look at Behemoth,
which I made along with you
and which feeds on grass like an ox.
16 What strength it has in its loins,
what power in the muscles of its belly!
17 Its tail sways like a cedar;
the sinews of its thighs are close-knit."
Others would say that they were extinct before man was created and so we shouldn't expect to see any records of them.

 

[Minilad]

Noah lived 950 years - would he be called a dinosaur?


Others would say that they were extinct before man was created and so we shouldn't expect to see any records of them.

And others would say before man evolved

 

[Deerfold]

Rule 34?

That was my first thought! not looking at the moment though
as I'm at work.

 

[SS4]

Noah lived 950 years - would he be called a dinosaur?

Others would say that they were extinct before man was created and so we shouldn't expect to see any records of them.

He would be called fictional. Why did the boat never sink if he had to take termites, woodpeckers and other wood eating creatures? It can also be argued that only a vengeful God would allow free will and then drown everyone for not bowing to his demands. In addition he ordered Jacob(?) to kill his first born son, that he then stopped it is 'proof'* that he likes messing with people and a nice God wouldn't do that.

* 'proof' based on the false assumption that the Bible is somehow true.

Come to think of it where does light come from in Genesis because it clearly states light is formed before the stars!

 

[Nick W]

He would be called fictional. Why did the boat never sink if he had to take termites, woodpeckers and other wood eating creatures? It can also be argued that only a vengeful God would allow free will and then drown everyone for not bowing to his demands. In addition he ordered Jacob(?) to kill his first born son, that he then stopped it is 'proof'* that he likes messing with people and a nice God wouldn't do that.

If God can create the world, I think God can probably stop a few woodpeckers from causing damage. I don't believe in "free will" as such but I do believe God is just and therefore any sentences carried out are just not not vengeful. You are right that Abraham was tested to see if his allegiance was with God and Abraham was blessed as a result. If you think we believe in a God incapable of being angry or returning hostility with hostility then no wonder you think we're nuts.

* 'proof' based on the false assumption that the Bible is somehow true.

Come to think of it where does light come from in Genesis because it clearly states light is formed before the stars!

Genesis 1 is poetic so questions like that are rather missing the point. As is the idea that day = 24 hours. Certainly the 7th day extends till Jesus is born!

 

[Minilad]

Wow. you really do believe all this stuff don't you, amazing

 

[SS4]

If God can create the world, I think God can probably stop a few woodpeckers from causing damage. I don't believe in "free will" as such but I do believe God is just and therefore any sentences carried out are just not not vengeful. You are right that Abraham was tested to see if his allegiance was with God and Abraham was blessed as a result.

I find it hard to imagine a just God would test his subjects in that way. If you don't believe in free will then surely it follows that some were destined to disbelieve? Seems hardly just to punish them based on what he presumably did to them. Reminds me of the Nazi policy to use the Ukraine's wheat to feed to Wehrmacht, starving the locals thus justifying their deportation to Germany or the gas chamber.

Genesis 1 is poetic so questions like that are rather missing the point. As is the idea that day = 24 hours. Certainly the 7th day extends till Jesus is born!

Nonetheless a day is still being used as a discrete quanta of time so it remains pertinent to ask how light was formed before the stars.

 

[Nick W]

I'm sorry if having an answer for everything comes across as annoying but then it would be ludicrous to believe it if there wasn't an answer to all these questions.

I find it hard to imagine a just God would test his subjects in that way. If you don't believe in free will then surely it follows that some were destined to disbelieve? Seems hardly just to punish them based on what he presumably did to them. Reminds me of the Nazi policy to use the Ukraine's wheat to feed to Wehrmacht, starving the locals thus justifying their deportation to Germany or the gas chamber.

Everyone on this forum has a sense of justice - we get upset when murders walk free. Yet at the end of the day, does science suggest people have free will? Is the brain not simply a chemical reaction? If we can only be just by locking people up for crimes they were pre-destined to commit, surely God has to do the same for the wrongdoing people do. This isn't quite true - God can be fully just by punishing Jesus for the wrong of others which is why those who believe are forgiven.

It took me about 6 months to come to believe this so yes it is hard! I don't really see anything comparable with Nazi policy.

Nonetheless a day is still being used as a discrete quanta of time so it remains pertinent to ask how light was formed before the stars.

I imagine what happened at the beginning is the same as what will happen at the end.
"5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever." Revelation 22:5

 

[SouthEastern-465]

I like the way the threads changed into a religous debate!

 

[jon0844]

And we got the Nazis in it too! Yay!

 

[Minilad]

Someone should start a Sulzer v English Electric debate see if that turns to religion too !

 

[Geezertronic]

Lets be "honest": God blesses you when something goes right and God is testing you when something goes wrong. For the believer, there's always an excuse. God seems to be the only person who doesn't get punished for mass murder

I liked last night Derren Brown programme which showed evangelists and faith healers for the fraudsters and con-men that they actually are, not that it has anything really to do with faith but it just shows how people who believe can be easily conned

And I blame God wholeheartedly for the instroduction of OMG into todays youth language