Interesting... information at East Putney

[Blenkiron]

I was at East Putney earlier today, waiting for a Edgware Road train. First train in was displayed as City via Victoria - not sure what this meant so I waited for the next one, the station board and my phone showed the destination as Edgware, however on arrival I found it was an Upminster train... and sure enough after Earl's Court it went on to Gloucester Road. What was going on?
Thanks for any info!

 

[rebmcr]

It's the same reason that I mentioned in this other reply (about a station out East).

 

[Dstock7080]

It's the same reason that I mentioned in this other reply (about a station out East).

Except that signalling Wimbledon-East Putney is not due to be upgraded and will still be controlled by National Rail.
All week the descriptions have been wayward from Wimbledon only getting corrected at Fulham Broadway with the transition to CBTC.

 

[Blenkiron]

Dstock7080, you mention it has occurred "all week" - is this something new? Has something changed recently regarding signalling?

 

[Dstock7080]

Dstock7080, you mention it has occurred "all week" - is this something new? Has something changed recently regarding signalling?

Nothing has changed regarding signalling and won’t until CBTC is introduced from East Putney to Fulham Broadway.
The problem with the Wimbledon-Fulham destination indicators is a very long saga of the interaction between NR and LU systems.

 

[boiledbeans2]

I use the District Line occasionally from Wimbledon, and I always find the station displays at Wimbeldon completely wrong.

The destination of the train would be wrong, and the next train out (displayed in terms of minutes) would also be wrong.

Once, the station display was showing the next departing train at Platform 2*, so the train on Platform 2 was already well loaded when I boarded. Then suddenly the train on Platform 3* closed it's doors and departed, with only a few passengers onboard. This was followed by a couple of f-bombs from the passengers on our train.

Is the Wimbledon display issue related to the issue discussed in this thread?

*These are random platform numbers, I can't remember the actual platform number.

 

[Dstock7080]

Is the Wimbledon display issue related to the issue discussed in this thread?

The very same

 

[londonteacher]

First train in was displayed as City via Victoria - not sure what this meant

I would assume that it would be a District Line service via Embankment that would change on route to be a Circle Line service via Liverpool Street. Can’t be sure though!

 

[Mojo]

I would assume that it would be a District Line service via Embankment that would change on route to be a Circle Line service via Liverpool Street. Can’t be sure though!

Not at all it just means that it is not an Edgware Rd train. Because of the limited number of Train Descriptions available it is used to denote a train going on through the City, this could be to many of the east end destinations.

 

[londonteacher]

Not at all it just means that it is not an Edgware Rd train. Because of the limited number of Train Descriptions available it is used to denote a train going on through the City, this could be to many of the east end destinations.

Oh, that’s something I have never seen before. I’ve never seen that happen from a District Line service. From the west, I have seen trains with the destinations of Tower Hill, Barking, Upminster, Edgware Road but never seen the City via Victoria except on the Circle Line.

Learn something new everyday!

 

[Mojo]

Oh, that’s something I have never seen before. I’ve never seen that happen from a District Line service. From the west, I have seen trains with the destinations of Tower Hill, Barking, Upminster, Edgware Road but never seen the City via Victoria except on the Circle Line.

Learn something new everyday!

You'll only see this on the Wimbledon branch; due to limitations with the system which provides this data on the section signalled by Network Rail it will describe Eastbound trains as City via Victoria, or Edgware Road during the day, rather than their actual destination. When it enters the first LU-controlled controlled area it should pick up its correct description.

If you look on an open-source website like Traksy (https://traksy.uk/live/M+29+WDON+-26) you can see that NR creates some sort of pseudo-headcode for LU services on the Wimbledon Branch. 1Inn is trains for Edgware Road, and 2Inn is "main" District trains, with nn being the train number. Not sure how it handles the late-evening services to Parsons Green, High Street or Earls Court, maybe @Dstock7080 could advise although I don't think he ever works that late

 

[Recessio]

Surprised they don't just cut their losses at Wimbledown and not display destinations, just showing every train as "District Line" and minutes till departure. As every single train goes through Earl's Court, you can still end up going wherever you want to go...

 

[Dstock7080]

Surprised they don't just cut their losses at Wimbledown and not display destinations, just showing every train as "District Line" and minutes till departure. As every single train goes through Earl's Court, you can still end up going wherever you want to go...

Exactly how it was until the current describers were installed around 10years ago, the SWT staff would call-out each departure and there were primitive hand-switched displays at Wimbledon with nothing else until Putney Bridge.

 

[Recessio]

Or alternatively, fully transfer the Wimbledon branch and signalling to LU control...

 

[rebmcr]

Or alternatively, fully transfer the Wimbledon branch and signalling to LU control...

I don't think LU has great desire to operate the myriad NR lines in and out of Wimbledon Depot.

 

[boiledbeans2]

Exactly how it was until the current describers were installed around 10years ago, the SWT staff would call-out each departure and there were primitive hand-switched displays at Wimbledon with nothing else until Putney Bridge.

Then probably they should use the tried and tested method today. Right now, the next departing train from Wimbledon is random to a passenger.

 

[Recessio]

I don't think LU has great desire to operate the myriad NR lines in and out of Wimbledon Depot.

Ah I didn't realise it was tied in to the depot.

 

[boiledbeans2]

I was at Wimbledon yesterday and had a good look at what was happening.

A correction to my earlier post - there is no countdown in minutes on the station describer. There is only destination and platform number.

So when I arrived, the first train on the station describer (I assumed it was the first as it was listed at the top) showed "City via Victoria Plat 1".

But at platform 1, the train sitting there showed "Edgware Road".

Then I walked all the way to the first carriage. The good news is that LU is well aware of this issue. There is a notice on the white Train Operator's information board, suggesting to make manual announcements due to the inaccurate station describers.

So everyone was onboard the train at Platform 1 as it was supposedly the next train to depart. I saw our driver (Platform 1 train) have a quick chat with the driver of the Platform 2 train. After that chat, our driver announced that the next train out is actually the one on Platform 2. (I think our driver didn't know which train was leaving first until after the chat).

So everyone got off the Platform 1 train and moved to the Platform 2 train. No confused "tourists" remaining onboard the Platform 1 train - it became completely empty. Everyone seemed familiar with the process.

Interestingly, the train on Platform 2 was listed as an "Edgware Road" train by the station describer, but was actually a city train on the train describer! (Can't remember exact destination)

In summary, both the destination and first departing train of the Wimbledon station describers are wrong. I think it would be better to switch off the station describers, and let passengers see the destination on the train describer.

I checked the Trackser app at Southfields and matched the train numbers. It corresponded to the station describers at Wimbledon, which meant it was wrong as the two trains discussed above had their destinations swapped on the station describers.

At Southfields itself, the station describers showed the destination as "District Line", which was good.

 

[Dstock7080]

So everyone was onboard the train at Platform 1 as it was supposedly the next train to depart. I saw our driver (Platform 1 train) have a quick chat with the driver of the Platform 2 train. After that chat, our driver announced that the next train out is actually the one on Platform 2. (I think our driver didn't know which train was leaving first until after the chat).

Drivers will be consulting with each other as the Duty analysis only shows their particular train and will be checking who is due out first and promptly use the TRTS plunger to indicate to the Wimbledon signaller which is the first departure. The starting signal will not be cleared until this information is provided.

 

[urbophile]

Exactly how it was until the current describers were installed around 10years ago, the SWT staff would call-out each departure and there were primitive hand-switched displays at Wimbledon with nothing else until Putney Bridge.

When I lived in Southfields before and just after the transfer of the stations to LU, Southfields (and presumably W Park and E Putney) had no platform indicators. Since the trains to Edgware Road and the other destinations were operated by different stock it was easy to know where one was going, at least as far as Mansion House/ Tower Hill

 

[miklcct]

I don't think LU has great desire to operate the myriad NR lines in and out of Wimbledon Depot.

That will mean the SWR stocks need to have the LU signalling system installed.

 

[Dstock7080]

That will mean the SWR stocks need to have the LU signalling system installed.

CBTC will not be heading west of East Putney for some considerable time.
Chiltern units will not require any additional equipment to operate HoH-Amersham

 

[WarrenTManager]

Once, the station display was showing the next departing train at Platform 2*, so the train on Platform 2 was already well loaded when I boarded. Then suddenly the train on Platform 3* closed it's doors and departed, with only a few passengers onboard. This was followed by a couple of f-bombs from the passengers on our train.

I have commuted to Wimbledon Park for years. This happens more than a few times over this time. Sometimes the other driver presses the TRTS first and they get the green. And they are off. It hasn't happened too often in recent times, at one point it was annoyingly too frequent so if the two next trains were on the same island 1/2 or 3/4 I'd just stand in the middle and go for the train that presses the TRTS first. Now I'm a bit more whatever and I'm five minutes later.

 

[FormerBritInMe]

Do they have the same issue at Richmond? Although if I am not mistaken don't all LU trains originating at Richmond run to Upminster?

I was at Kew Gardens a few weeks ago but unfortunately didn't notice what the train describers were showing, being distracted trying to get a picture of some Overground stock.

 

[Dstock7080]

Do they have the same issue at Richmond? Although if I am not mistaken don't all LU trains originating at Richmond run to Upminster?

Off-peak that tends to be true, however during the peak and shoulders Barking and Tower Hill trains can be seen.
The last two days haven’t been good at Richmond either, with trains departing every 10min but the platform indicators suggesting 20min gaps in service and wrongly showing the next trains from wrong platforms.
eg. 1024 showing as 1034 departure pfm.6
1013 pfm.7 showing as 1044