Interesting announcement to remember water

[Flying Snail]

166 Turbo's have air-con so the windows should be locked shut and only opened for emergency ventilation or in the event the air-con doesn't work.

165's don't have air-con hence why they are fitted with hopper style windows.

Unfortunately people open the windows on the 166's which puts extra strain on the air-con and results in a number of failures. Bear in mind in a warm saloon, with a large number of bodies giving off heat, every time the doors open at a stop letting in more warm air, the interior is not going to be fridge like no matter how good the air-con is.

I have read and heard that sort of thing about A/C units malfunctioning because of being stressed due to open windows and such but it is total rubbish. While opening windows on hot days will reduce or even nullify the effectiveness of working A/C systems it will not cause them to break.

A/C units have no problem in running all day continuously on full, in fact it is less damaging to most of them then continual on/off cycles.

In my experience it is unlikely for people to go around opening multiple windows when the A/C is properly functioning in the first place. They will usually only start opening windows in response to uncomfortably high temperatures, of course there will always be the odd individual who will open windows no matter what but if lots of windows are open it is going to be because of non-functioning A/C not the other way round.

If the systems are not able to deal with crowds of warm bodies and regular opening of doors then they are not fit for purpose and need to be repaired or replaced with better units.

Many of the units being praised in previous posts such as Southern Electrostars will be at least as busy and have more frequent stops than 166 units but their systems are able to cope with that and still keep the interior to comfortable temperatures.

 

[jon0844]

I think a lot of people would open windows if they could even if the aircon was working okay, simply as you might have been moving quite fast to get a train and feel hot afterwards. You'd cool down after a few minutes, but a lot of people wouldn't wait that long.

It might be different if the temperature was ice cold but that would be a waste of energy and also cause problems as you're dressed for warm weather and don't want to become so cold you'd need a jacket!

 

[Fred26]

I think a lot of people would open windows if they could even if the aircon was working okay, simply as you might have been moving quite fast to get a train and feel hot afterwards. You'd cool down after a few minutes, but a lot of people wouldn't wait that long.

It might be different if the temperature was ice cold but that would be a waste of energy and also cause problems as you're dressed for warm weather and don't want to become so cold you'd need a jacket!

I agree. It's a 'grass isn't always greener' moment. Travelling with one non-airconditioned TOC, I might wish for air-con, but then sometimes the air-con can leave me cold, even at the height of summer.
I think I'd take windows. Okay, they can create a miserable noise, but at least fresh air is circulating.

 

[pinguini]

I also heard the water announcement this morning at Worcester Foregate Street which also advised passengers not to board if they are unwell.

 

[185143]

It's a little surprising that they're encouraging passengers to bring water with them, rather than suggesting they buy water on the train? But then, thinking about it, does the money from the trolley actually go to the TOC or does it go to Rail Gourmet or whatever they're called?

I challenge you to buy a bottle of water on any Northern service (Except the S&C).

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Well I'm considering suing EMT as whilst on one of their trains I stabbed myself in the head with a fork, causing myself considerable pain and injury.

Why was there no warning to passengers not to stab themselves in the head with a fork? If EMT don't make such announcement isn't there a danger of their customers stabbing themselves in the head with forks, not realising that such behaviour is not advisable as no-one told them they shouldn't?

 

[jon0844]

I think you'll find it's written on the passenger safety notices situation throughout the train. It's in the small print, so you might need a magnifying glass.

Passengers are also reminded not to use magnifying glasses to burn themselves...

Being serious for one minute, I realise the comparisons with other 'common sense' advice but when it comes to people not drinking enough water, I think it goes way beyond common sense.

I think it's well known that people generally have too little liquid in hot weather, and so reminders are a good idea. Of course, if someone has just had a mouthful of water and thinks that's enough for a 30 minute ride on a red-hot sweaty tube, then no advice will help.. but advising to carry a bottle with you does at least mean people might have the opportunity to drink more when they suddenly realise.

(And it also helps if someone carries some water should someone else on the train not be as sensible and you can now donate yours).

I really don't think telling people to carry some water with them is like telling people not to jump off a cliff and any other extreme comparisons we might end up getting on here.

 

[Eagle]

And also of course they're not saying the messages in case someone tries to sue (that case wouldn't get very far in court), it's so they don't have people passing out on their trains and stations, causing delays.

 

[jon0844]

I think it's a common misconception that companies only ever say things to avoid being sued, when I doubt that just saying something would stop a legal challenge if there were sufficient grounds. Some really do say things just to avoid problems happening because it's best for ALL concerned.

I hope to God that we never see legal action from people who faint because they've not had enough water/food. Of course that wouldn't stop some idiot trying, or moaning to the Daily Mail, but I doubt we'd ever see such a case going to court.

Just like the other myth about giving first aid and being sued by the recipient.

 

[A-driver]

Well I'm considering suing EMT as whilst on one of their trains I stabbed myself in the head with a fork, causing myself considerable pain and injury.

Why was there no warning to passengers not to stab themselves in the head with a fork? If EMT don't make such announcement isn't there a danger of their customers stabbing themselves in the head with forks, not realising that such behaviour is not advisable as no-one told them they shouldn't?

If it caused considerable delays then they would make announcments about that.

I don't see what the problem with these announcments is-people are saying on here that it is common sense to carry water in hot weather but in that case why do so few people do so, especially on commuter trains, and why is that leading to so many delay minutes whilst they get passed out passengers off of trains and into ambulances?

They are responding to a big cause of delays at this time of year and rather than just ignoring it and letting delays pile up they are being proactive and trying to reduce such delays. Companies like FCC wouldn't be offering free water at stations out of the goodness of their hearts-they do it as it reduces delays which they have to pay for.

 

[455driver]

Just like the other myth about giving first aid and being sued by the recipient.

Oh thats a myth is it?

And there was me thinking the headlines I read a number of years ago about the doctor who rescusitated the bloke who had a heart attack but was then sued by him for the broken ribs he suffered was true!

 

[Monty]

Oh thats a myth is it?

And there was me thinking the headlines I read a number of years ago about the doctor who rescusitated the bloke who had a heart attack but was then sued by him for the broken ribs he suffered was true!

I had heard a similar story during my first aid training with the Territorial Army, a reservist had performed CPR on an old lady who had collapsed and stopped breathing. He broke a few ribs in the process but her saved her life, her daughter thanked him by trying to sue the poor bloke. Thankfully common sense prevailed and the Judge told the old lady and daughter to stop wasting his time and threw the case out.

Unfortunately in this day and age corporations and individuals have a real reason to be fearful of being sued.

 

[A-driver]

Oh thats a myth is it?

And there was me thinking the headlines I read a number of years ago about the doctor who rescusitated the bloke who had a heart attack but was then sued by him for the broken ribs he suffered was true!

It's certainly not a myth, it is however one of those things that one or two examples have blown it out of proportion.

There is a difference between suing someone and successfully suing someone.

 

[jon0844]

Exactly. You can't stop some idiot trying to sue, but it doesn't mean it will succeed and not get thrown out.

So, I stick with my belief (as does the Red Cross that gave me my basic first aid training) that it's a myth.

I tried to do a search for "doctor sued after giving first aid" and found nothing.. other than this: http://www.realfirstaid.co.uk/dutyofcare/ (saying 'The most important thing to remember is that to date, no one in the UK has ever been sued for administering life-saving First Aid.').

 

[Eagle]

What about the one where someone was sued for preventing someone else taking their own life... no wait that's the plot of The Incredibles.

 

[edwin_m]

EMT were giving out free bottles of water on the 1843 from Manchester around Alfreton this evening. Sorry I don't recall whether there was a trolley on board, I was nose down in the laptop most of the way.

 

[455driver]

There is a difference between suing someone and successfully suing someone.

Very good point, the example I gave did go to court but it didnt go well for the prosecution.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

There is no recorded case of anyone being successfully sued for doing CPR. There may be cases that were thrown out, but I haven't ever been able to find any.

The only case where that might happen is if a DNR or Advanced Directive was available and was ignored, but that's only applicable to healthcare professionals and not lay people.

 

[455driver]

I tried to do a search for "doctor sued after giving first aid" and found nothing.. other than this: http://www.realfirstaid.co.uk/dutyofcare/ (saying 'The most important thing to remember is that to date, no one in the UK has ever been sued for administering life-saving First Aid.').

It was either the late 90s or early 00s and was in the Plymouth Evening Herald.

Maybe you should say "The most important thing to remember is that to date, no one in the UK has ever been successfully sued for administering life-saving First Aid".

 

[A-driver]

With first aid or anything similar, providing you follow EXACTLY what you have been trained to do (and this is very true of jobs like train drivers) then you can't be sued. If you attempt first aid without training and get it wrong you could potentially be in hot water, although chances are that if you saved someone's life then a court would side with you. It's when you attempt something like CPR, get it wrong and possibly make the situation worse that you could end up in court. But the first rule of first aid anyway is to call an ambulance.

But back on topic, giving out water and making announcements about water has nothing to do with being sued, it's to reduce delays.

I can't see how you could sue the railway for hot or crowded conditions-it boils down to the fact that you arnt forced onto a train. If it gets too hot and busy you can simply get off. And considering we are mainly talking about commuter trains there will be at least a half hourly service and stations will be frequent, rarely more than 10mims between stops.

 

[Starmill]

How odd to lock windows to help the air conditioning if it wasn't functioning! Can't the aircon be checked by the guard to see if it's working (or just feel the vents to see if any cool air is coming out)?

Hehe, clearly never been on an M5000 tram then! They don't have air conditioning (except in the cabs) but the windows are still locked sometimes!