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Intercity first class seats

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Richard5608

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hi. Can someone tell me when the mark 2f and mark 3 first class seats used in the 1970s 80s 90s with white adjustable headrests where replaced with the ones with antimacassars with the intercity first class logo. Also can anybody tell me when british rail started offering free tea and coffee to first class passengers. thank you
 
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Mag_seven

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Also can anybody tell me when british rail started offering free tea and coffee to first class passengers. thank you

I think free tea and coffee for first class passengers was only available in designated "Pullman" services operated by the BR InterCity sector. Free tea and coffee in first class more widely only came in after services were privatised. I might be wrong though.
 

Bishopstone

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My recollection, too, is that free hot drinks was a post-privatisation initiative. I have a vague notion that East Coast/GNER moved first, but the memory may be playing-up.
 

superjohn

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I think free tea and coffee was first offered as part of the “Silver standard” product. This was a innovation from the last days of BR and was offered to passengers with full fare (Anytime in todays parlance) tickets on Inter City cross country routes. The standard class seated area of the buffet cars on the HST stock was designated for this service.

No doubt first class dining passengers got beverages included with their meals but silver standard was probably the first time truly free tea and coffee was offered without needing to purchase anything else.
 

Helvellyn

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With regards the replacement of the white cloth covered headrests with the more shaped moquette ones plus antimacassar I think this came in around 1986/87. The first Mark 2F/3/3A coaches to gain InterCity colours were facelifted; it was the full refurbishment that saw the change. This also saw the Standard class seats adopt a more contoured seat back (the original style being used still in the 4-BEP/4-CEP units).
 

peteb

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When I used to travel back from London Euston to Birmingham New St in the 1980s I often ate a meal on the evening train. I have receipts which show coffee was charged for.....BUT as I was travelling on a second class student railcard ticket the deal was pay for unlimited coffee and I could travel for the rest of the journey in the first class restaurant car. I've no idea if my travelling companions on full first class tickets had to pay for their coffee!
 

peteb

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Most stock Euston to New St was Mk2e or f air conditioned with orange first class seats. But a few times I ate in the restaurant car (Mk1) with big black armchairs to sit in round the table, and that had white cloths on the headrest. This was unusual as the usual RB had loose plastic chairs!
 

Helvellyn

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Most stock Euston to New St was Mk2e or f air conditioned with orange first class seats. But a few times I ate in the restaurant car (Mk1) with big black armchairs to sit in round the table, and that had white cloths on the headrest. This was unusual as the usual RB had loose plastic chairs!
Sounds like you were in a Restaurant Buffet converted from a Restaurant First, which were built with kitchen/pantry and had 24 seats with folding armrests (RF). Most were converted in the 1970s with the addition of a buffet counter and seating reduced to 12 (RBK). Some were further refurbished and gained the loose plastic seating (RBR) but your description suggests an RBK.

Your description of black seat covers would suggest Charcoal Check.

T01-swatch.png
 
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Taunton

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When I used to travel back from London Euston to Birmingham New St in the 1980s I often ate a meal on the evening train. I have receipts which show coffee was charged for.....BUT as I was travelling on a second class student railcard ticket the deal was pay for unlimited coffee and I could travel for the rest of the journey in the first class restaurant car. I've no idea if my travelling companions on full first class tickets had to pay for their coffee!
I think you are correct, in BR days I cannot recall any free catering being offered at all. Menu items were individually priced, and that included the coffee. These were the days when BR even charged for timetables!

There was no distinction between ticket class and what the restaurant car charged, all paid the same, the stewards had no interest in what sort of ticket you had, which were examined separately. My recollection of London to Liverpool/Newcastle services was that a lot of the restaurant car usage anyway was BR management staff travelling to Crewe or York on passes.

One recollection was an early morning St Pancras to Sheffield, seated opposite in a 1+1 were two first-time American business travellers, who seemingly had seats booked in the restaurant car by their London office. They were so impressed by the BR breakfast and said how marvellous it was compared to airlines they were used to - but then were more than a little surprised to be presented with a bill for it at the end.

Actually I do remember a BR "free" arrangement, it was if an adult was dining their children under (what was it, 10 years old?) ate for free. One morning, sat at a 2+2 table, I was joined for breakfast by a mama plus two boys, aged say 9 and 7, who both devoured more than mama herself, the latter telling me that it was a great bargain for them which they always did and enjoyed. By the time I had also also passed across some of our little corporate marketing trinkets I chanced to have in my briefcase (another long-disappeared item) the two lads had done quite well.

I never travelled in Silver Standard, but colleagues did, and said that on the key morning service on which day returns etc were not valid anyway it was undesirably squashed with all seats taken compared to the rest of the second class (it was then) in adjacent coaches. I believe they got a newspaper and one cup of coffee. Not sure if it was Maxpax.
 
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peteb

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Sounds like you were in a Restaurant Buffet converted from a Restaurant First, which were built with kitchen/pantry and had 24 seats with folding armrests (RF). Most were converted in the 1970s with the addition of a buffet counter and seating reduced to 12 (RBK). Some were further refurbished and gained the loose plastic seating (RBR) but your description suggests an RBK.

Your description of black seat covers would suggest Charcoal Check.

T01-swatch.png
That photo is spot on. Yes the seats were 2 + 4 configuration with individual arm chairs for two on one side of the corridor. Must have been bolted to the floor as the MK1 stock did bounce around the WCML. But I preferred it and it was noisier with opening windows so you got more feeling of speed! However waiting staff were very cautious around Berkhamstead curve, Bletchley and Rugby. They never spilt anything on me!
 

peteb

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Not sure if this is too off topic but I recall getting the 1903 FO Paddington to Hereford several times, 50 hauled Mk1s so must have been 1990s? This was always corridor stock, and with no buffet car, a long haul of about 3 hours. However on one occasion I was in a declassified FK and a tea trolley turned up. We all got tea or coffee free. I recall this because someone going to Oxford had a large box with a birthday cake in it which we all admired hoping for a slice with our tea. Never happened again, I wonder if that was a trial service, pre-privatisation, as soon after Chiltern began running with tea trolleys (but not on that route of course).
 
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