InterCity 125s for parcels traffic

[muddythefish]

Apologies if this story has been posted elsewhere but there's a story in the FT tomorrow stating GB Railfreight is to refurbish 125s that are coming out of service this year and start a Yorkshire - London fast parcels service from early 2018.

The company says it looking at a "site in north London" for the same-day delivery service that it believes will capture alot of traffic from road. It says one 125 can shift the equivalent of 6 truck loads of parcels. Parcels will be taken in the return direction to the Doncaster area.

 

[najaB]

It's been posted as a theoretical possibility several times but this is the first concrete proposal I've seen.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Don't think they will get their hands on any HST power cars till mid to late 2018.

All power cars displaced up until then are already spoken for.

 

[Dolive22]

I seem to recall this being discussed before on here (in fact, I think it might have been my idea). I think I suggested Special Delivery and ministerial red boxes going in a locked compartment where the loos were.

As my wild speculation a few years is now under serious consideration, I'll try a little more: Terminal in the disused east bore of Copenhagen Tunnel, on the NLL next to a Royal mail facility between KTW and Gospel Oak, on the MML next to a UPS facility on the same industrial estate (or the engineering yard on the other side of the tracks), or on the GOBLIN next to a small light industrial estate (with plenty of vacant open space next to the railway) with a Royal Mail delivery office in Islington.

EDIT:
I wasn't being wholly serious with the above, but the down slow on the line from Doncaster has a link to the NLL, and appears to have the layout to allow a train to run back out and via the down slow to the up slow. You can connect through to the GOBLIN from there, and the site next to the GOBLIN must actually be one of the most suitable sites in North London for that.

 

[DarloRich]

I seem to recall this being discussed before on here (in fact, I think it might have been my idea). I think I suggested Special Delivery and ministerial red boxes going in a locked compartment where the loos were.

As my wild speculation a few years is now under serious consideration, I'll try a little more: Terminal in the disused east bore of Copenhagen Tunnel, on the NLL next to a Royal mail facility between KTW and Gospel Oak, on the MML next to a UPS facility on the same industrial estate (or the engineering yard on the other side of the tracks), or on the GOBLIN next to a small light industrial estate (with plenty of vacant open space next to the railway) with a Royal Mail delivery office in Islington.

or just use the PRDC in Willesden and run to the old RM terminal at Doncaster and move by road at each end? I dont know but think that might be a tad easier

 

[BestWestern]

What is the stock they are proposing putting between the power cars? Is it possible to cut enormous holes in the side of stressed-skinned Mk3s for roller shutters etc?

 

[Dolive22]

or just use the PRDC in Willesden and run to the old RM terminal at Doncaster and move by road at each end? I dont know but think that might be a tad easier

When I first drew up an example service for this, I did have it stop at Doncaster for Royal Mail, although, because I was mucking about, I had it extend further. It sounds like it will be more Red Star than mail by rail, so I'm not sure Royal Mail would welcome a cuckoo in their nest at PRDC, but yes, I would love that.

 

[DarloRich]

When I first drew up an example service for this, I did have it stop at Doncaster for Royal Mail, although, because I was mucking about, I had it extend further. It sounds like it will be more Red Star than mail by rail, so I'm not sure Royal Mail would welcome a cuckoo in their nest at PRDC, but yes, I would love that.

i bet they would if you paid them

You could also extend to Low Fell quite easily. Hell why not run via the West Coast to Warrington and Glasgow if a trial works.

 

[DarloRich]

What is the stock they are proposing putting between the power cars? Is it possible to cut enormous holes in the side of stressed-skinned Mk3s for roller shutters etc?

just run the power cars back to back or jam a few ex PCV's into the consist

 

[Dolive22]

DarloRich, I would hope RM would also be willing to send some trunk traffic on that train if surplus capacity was available at a reasonable price.

While wishes are coming true, can they rebuild the line past my old house, which was able to link the ECML to the WCML, with interchange with the MML, all avoiding London?

Personally, a direct service from the High Barnet Branch of the Northern Line to Holborn, switching to direct to Temple in summer 2018, would be great, but may be stretching my luck.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Is it possible to cut enormous holes in the side of stressed-skinned Mk3s for roller shutters etc?

I would have thought so. They might not retain enough structural integrity to permit them to be used as passenger vehicles but parcels aren’t passengers.

 

[amarshe]

Nice idea, but 400 mile return trips using diesel under the wires? Surely there must be some electric stock they can use?

 

[HowardGWR]

Could the 442s be similarly altered for parcels use? (coat already got).

 

[najaB]

Nice idea, but 400 mile return trips using diesel under the wires? Surely there must be some electric stock they can use?

Is there 125mph electric stock going spare?

 

[Jordeh]

The article details how GBRF have a deal with Doddle and Asos for same day delivery. By providing this service it means companies would not have to worry about expensive distribution centres in or around London. The intention for the return trip up north is for them to be filled with parcels from Heathrow Airport (airfreight generally being a premium market). Also claims they're ready to go to market now, they're just waiting on the trains.

I do not think the size of the passenger doors on the carriages will be an issue, I'm confident most parcels would fit through them.

 

[gsnedders]

Is there 125mph electric stock going spare?

Class 91s + Mk4s, soon? (And yes, I realise the 91s are in a worse state mechanically than the re-engineed HSTs. I'm not totally serious. But aside from that they're biggest downside is their acceleration making them unsuitable elsewhere, and that's not a problem if they're running non-stop.)

 

[59CosG95]

Class 91s + Mk4s, soon? (And yes, I realise the 91s are in a worse state mechanically than the re-engineed HSTs. I'm not totally serious. But aside from that they're biggest downside is their acceleration making them unsuitable elsewhere, and that's not a problem if they're running non-stop.)

Would it be worthwhile to fit a new AC traction package that would enable quicker acceleration? Perhaps Bombardier's MITRAC propulsion system (as fitted to the TRAXX family) or the electronics fitted to Siemens' new Vectron family could be possible contenders to replace the old GEC DC motors currently in the 91s...

 

[HSTEd]

You don't necessarily need roller shutters really. You can load surprisingly large bags of parcels through holes the size and shape of the windows.

 

[Dolive22]

Can they run non-stop, or will they run in to other traffic and slow down? Presumably same day orders would have to be moving during they daytime?

Where is the article? I got a copy of the FT, but I couldn't see GBRF in the list of companies mentioned.

 

[gsnedders]

Would it be worthwhile to fit a new AC traction package that would enable quicker acceleration? Perhaps Bombardier's MITRAC propulsion system (as fitted to the TRAXX family) or the electronics fitted to Siemens' new Vectron family could be possible contenders to replace the old GEC DC motors currently in the 91s...

Would that be so much cheaper than a new-build locomotive? Though there's nothing on the market in the UK loading gauge that's 125mph capable…

There's also the matter of RA7 v. RA5, versus the HST.

 

[daikilo]

How about some 319s with seats removed and a last mile diesel engine, after all, the 325s are based on the 319.

 

[najaB]

How about some 319s...

The 319 is a 100mph design, is it not?

 

[Cletus]

This is the article.

https://www.ft.com/content/39276ea8-ed53-11e6-930f-061b01e23655

The train is promising to take the strain of some of the booming market in ecommerce deliveries, after a rail freight operator revealed plans to use old Intercity 125 trains to whisk parcels from Yorkshire to north London.

GB Railfreight plans to start offering the service between Doncaster and a site in north London from early 2018, in the hope it will revolutionise how goods are distributed in London. Same-day deliveries are currently almost entirely handled by trucks and vans.

Customers would be offered two round-trips daily between Doncaster and London, one handling orders placed late at night the previous day and the next handling orders placed the same morning. The initiative should allow companies in the cluster of existing distribution centres near Doncaster to use those centres for the London market, instead of building expensive new facilities in or near the capital..

The article continues, but is behind a pay-wall I think.

 

[Bertie the bus]

You don't necessarily need roller shutters really. You can load surprisingly large bags of parcels through holes the size and shape of the windows.

By hand maybe but if the trial, whatever form that takes, turned into a full blown service it would be much quicker just rolling cages on and off. As this is a same day delivery service they are talking about the time required to load/unload would be critical.

 

[najaB]

By hand maybe but if the trial, whatever form that takes, turned into a full blown service it would be much quicker just rolling cages on and off. As this is a same day delivery service they are talking about the time required to load/unload would be critical.

End loading might take a little longer but replacing the slam doors with sliding doors and the floor with a rolling carpet like cargo airliners would mean you don't need to cut into the structure (much).

 

[furnessvale]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this company.

Been in business for at least 5 years.

http://intercityrailfreight.com/index.php/2016/12/08/parcels-by-train-again/

 

[najaB]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this company.

I love their company slogan: "The train is going there anyway".

 

[Clip]

End loading might take a little longer but replacing the slam doors with sliding doors and the floor with a rolling carpet like cargo airliners would mean you don't need to cut into the structure (much).

You dont need to at al. Just rip out the interior and have loading ramps and use cages for the parcels. Just a bit wider than the rail gourmet modules and there you go instant storage. In neat little lines. And could be done all in order of stops with the first loaded last so its first off

 

[BestWestern]

I do not think the size of the passenger doors on the carriages will be an issue, I'm confident most parcels would fit through them.

They would, but the loading would take forever! And I very much doubt the sort of mail cages likely to be used would fit easily.

 

[gg1]

Could the 442s be similarly altered for parcels use? (coat already got).

Or even 373s