Inter City 225 -v- Pendolino: your views as a passenger?

[gimmea50anyday]

hasn't tilt sickness been around since the APT days?

Tilt sickness is fictional, based on media journalists riding the APT sozzled as a result of overdoing the freebies BR provided!

The fact APT overcompensated and ran at 100% tilt probably didnt help, but was simply a correctable technicality that time and experience would have put right....

 

[gsnedders]

Tilt sickness is fictional, based on media journalists riding the APT sozzled as a result of overdoing the freebies BR provided!

The fact APT overcompensated and ran at 100% tilt probably didnt help, but was simply a correctable technicality that time and experience would have put right....

I can tell you for a fact that I end up feeling nauseous in the window seats on Pendolino after a few hours, regardless of whether it's fictional or not! The aisle seats are fine, though—I wonder if that's down to being closer to the pivot point and hence moving less? I've always found First Class to be worse, for whatever reason, and that isn't the food/drink given it happens at weekends too!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Tilt sickness is fictional, based on media journalists riding the APT sozzled as a result of overdoing the freebies BR provided!

My son gets very queasy on 390s - but on no other train at all. If that's not tilt related then I don't know what it is.

Speaking personally the WCML was much more comfortable to travel on in pre-tilt days when you felt the sideways forces on the curves more.

 

[ainsworth74]

I think we're getting conflated a bit perhaps? The APTs reputation for causing sickness was undeserved and thanks to journos who imbibed a bit too much and BR not yet realizing that it was better to not compensate for all of the lateral forces. However it does seem reasonable that some people, especially those who might already have a disposition to travel sickness, might be prone to feeling sick due to the motion of a tilting train.

 

[TheKnightWho]

My son gets very queasy on 390s - but on no other train at all. If that's not tilt related then I don't know what it is.

Speaking personally the WCML was much more comfortable to travel on in pre-tilt days when you felt the sideways forces on the curves more.

It's definitely a minority of people that get sick, but it's enough to make you wonder how practicable it is to have it on a mainline railway...

That being said, canted railways don't seem to have nearly the same issues (as far as I know), and they can certainly get quite steep at times.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's definitely a minority of people that get sick, but it's enough to make you wonder how practicable it is to have it on a mainline railway...

Class 180s make me sick due to the atrocious ride. Pendolinos don't, though initially they did if I sat in the front coach I seem to have got used to it.

 

[Clip]

225 for me. Just that much more comfortable especially in 1st.

 

[Bletchleyite]

225 for me. Just that much more comfortable especially in 1st.

I enjoyed a ride in Mk4 First Class this evening (unrefurbed). It was comfortable, and I had a single seat as I prefer. Most pleasant, and excellent on-board service - it was almost as if they wanted me to get drunk on "free" cider, such was the frequency of the service. The beef curry was also pleasant (West Coast, can we please have something other than sarnies and snack boxes on off-peak 1st?).

I also (on the way up last week) tried out one of the split-cushion Standard seats which seem to resolve the "sore back" problems caused by the old single-piece cushions. This is also a good thing.

But...the thing rode like an absolute cart - worse than a Pacer in places, and certainly worse than a Mk3 which is hardly a benchmark for quality ride - almost more like the characteristic Mk2 vertical bounce.

Is this normal? I know Pendolinos can be a bit rough at times, but this was something else.

 

[yorksrob]

I enjoyed a ride in Mk4 First Class this evening (unrefurbed). It was comfortable, and I had a single seat as I prefer. Most pleasant, and excellent on-board service - it was almost as if they wanted me to get drunk on "free" cider, such was the frequency of the service. The beef curry was also pleasant (West Coast, can we please have something other than sarnies and snack boxes on off-peak 1st?).

I also (on the way up last week) tried out one of the split-cushion Standard seats which seem to resolve the "sore back" problems caused by the old single-piece cushions. This is also a good thing.

But...the thing rode like an absolute cart - worse than a Pacer in places, and certainly worse than a Mk3 which is hardly a benchmark for quality ride - almost more like the characteristic Mk2 vertical bounce.

Is this normal? I know Pendolinos can be a bit rough at times, but this was something else.

I've had that, but only on occasions when on mk4's. I wonder whether it's an issue with specific vehicles?

 

[Mikey C]

I don't go on Mk4s very often, but always find the ride rather unsettled

 

[robbeech]

I try not to be biased as i'm a bit of a Loco Hauled fan for what nowadays are pointless reasons, but i must say, out of the relatively small amount of travelling i've done on 390's i'm not massively impressed. They were probably the right thing to do, they get off the mark quickly and that keeps the times down which people like. But for nearly all the reasons stated in the last 11 pages, i'm not a huge fan.

MK4s on a 91 I can tolerate quite easily. So, they're a bit rough and bumpy at times, but i seem to be spending more and more time on them and can't really argue that they do the job they're supposed to.

I too have a soft spot for MK3 though.

 

[Harlesden]

Ridden on Class 91 dozens of times but soon taking my very first ride on a Class 390.
Which do experienced members prefer?
What are the differences in interior, ride quality and sounds at speed?
Does the 390 even get up to full speed on a short hop between London and Birmingham (early morning service)?

 

[Bald Rick]

A 390 is up to full speed just north of Wembley, so you will have plenty at 125, and at full tilt, even if you get off at the first stop.

 

[yorkie]

Ridden on Class 91 dozens of times but soon taking my very first ride on a Class 390.
Which do experienced members prefer?

I've never had the opportunity to ride in a class 91, but obviously that would be preferable as it would mean having a drivers eye view

 

[cambsy]

Tilt starts at Queens park and be doing 125 mph through Wembley Central then as far as Bushey, 110 mph through Watford Junction to middle of tunnel, then 115 mph mile or so, then 125 mph to Stowe Hill tunnel, then 120 mph through Weedon, then short 125 mph to Kilsby tunnel, then 110 mph through tunnel, then 125 mph through Hilmorton-Rugby to Coventry, long as tilt working, if not then be 110 mph max.

 

[MonsooN]

I've only been on a Pendolino a couple of times but regularly use the 225s.

The main difference I noticed was the 225s seem to have more head room and generally feel more light and airy. The ceiling on the Pendolino coaches (as with the Voyagers) seems to close in at the sides making the coach feel much smaller and more enclosed.

However, I find the seats on the 225 to be very uncomfortable after a couple of hours and I end up an aching coccyx.

I sometimes get a the XC service from Bristol to Newcastle and always subtly punch the air with my fist when I see the HST approaching instead of a Voyager.

 

[AndrewE]

I don't have any problem with Pendolinos (although if going backwards I'd rather read a book than look out of the window, as on any train) and yesterday I thought the ride on a Mk IV from Edinburgh to York was fine.
The ambience of a loco-hauled coach is far better than any DMU (on from York to Manchester) but I have to say that the Pendolinos feel less spacious than the Mk IVs even though both were designed to tilt.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I prefer the 225s Mk4 coaches to a Pendolinos(390). I rate the Mk3 coaches about the same as a Mk4 and I think they are the nicest intercity stock in the UK. I am really struck with how claustrophobic the Pendolinos are and how intense the noise from the air-conditioning is. I prefer to pootle up the WCML in a 350 as it is more spacious and open.

If I want to be in a small space with lots of noise I might as well fly. In fact my personal belief is that whoever accepted the design of the Pendolino's passenger environment probably came from an airline background ().

 

[Peter Mugridge]

If I want to be in a small space with lots of noise I might as well fly. In fact my personal belief is that whoever accepted the design of the Pendolino's passenger environment probably came from an airline background ().

They did. The 390 interior was deliberately specced to replicate the experience of flying...

 

[RichmondCommu]

Tilt starts at Queens park and be doing 125 mph through Wembley Central then as far as Bushey, 110 mph through Watford Junction to middle of tunnel, then 115 mph mile or so, then 125 mph to Stowe Hill tunnel, then 120 mph through Weedon, then short 125 mph to Kilsby tunnel, then 110 mph through tunnel, then 125 mph through Hilmorton-Rugby to Coventry, long as tilt working, if not then be 110 mph max.

That alone is a fantastic advert for the Pendolino, although I was a big fan after my first journey on a Pendolino up to Manchester many years a go. In my opinion they are a huge improvement on what came before on the WCML.

 

[harz99]

I've only been on a Pendolino a couple of times but regularly use the 225s.

The main difference I noticed was the 225s seem to have more head room and generally feel more light and airy. The ceiling on the Pendolino coaches (as with the Voyagers) seems to close in at the sides making the coach feel much smaller and more enclosed.

However, I find the seats on the 225 to be very uncomfortable after a couple of hours and I end up an aching coccyx.
I sometimes get a the XC service from Bristol to Newcastle and always subtly punch the air with my fist when I see the HST approaching instead of a Voyager.

I find the same thing, primarily because the seat cushion interiors are worn out.

However, and kudos to VTEC for doing this, the newly refurbished seats are like brand new, being fully re-padded rather than just new covers,and thus much more comfortable to travel on.

Trouble is they are few and far between at the moment.

 

[jon0844]

They did. The 390 interior was deliberately specced to replicate the experience of flying...

And Virgin further replicate things by checking tickets before boarding at Euston and blocking the phone signal as if you're travelling at 35,000 feet...

 

[ainsworth74]

They did. The 390 interior was deliberately specced to replicate the experience of flying...

Urban legends as far as I'm aware?

 

[keith1879]

Urban legends as far as I'm aware?

Possibly so .....but whether the intention was a legend or not the reality is there - the interior is cramped and claustrophobic like the inside of a narrow-bodied jet.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Urban legends as far as I'm aware?

Most probably. The interior is a vertically and horizontally squashed version of the Euro Pendolino, that's all. It is a bit plane-like but that'll be the small windows, which aren't a deliberate aspect of the design from an industrial design point of view, they're just the result of vertically squashing the Euro Pendolino while not substantially changing the structure.

If they fixed the Mk4's atrocious ride and fitted it with better seats (e.g. the fGW HST high back ones) I'd prefer it. Without that I'd rather a Pendolino. Certainly a Pendolino in First Class, I find the seats vastly more comfortable and the window alignment is correct so that isn't a concern.

 

[jayah]

I'm going to be different. Pendolino every time. The Mk4 seats hurt my back. Change the seats for something different such as the fGW HST ones and I will immediately change my mind.

I will second the GW HST. If you can retrofit a plug socket at every bay of Standard Class seats in 40 year old HST why doesn't the Pendolino? The mk4 seats took a huge step back when they got refurbed. The airline seat legroom on the GW HST is the best of any Standard Class going.

The Pendolino - that is just a coffin.

 

[MonsooN]

I find the same thing, primarily because the seat cushion interiors are worn out.

However, and kudos to VTEC for doing this, the newly refurbished seats are like brand new, being fully re-padded rather than just new covers,and thus much more comfortable to travel on.

Trouble is they are few and far between at the moment.

Very glad to hear it. I look forward to my first journey on one - which could be in a couple of weeks time - if I'm lucky!

 

[johnnyp_360]

Are both of these trains still capable of traveling at 225km/h? I understand the reasons they don't. I'm just curious, are they limited by hardware or software etc..?

 

[cjmillsnun]

Are both of these trains still capable of traveling at 225km/h? I understand the reasons they don't. I'm just curious, are they limited by hardware or software etc..?

I don't see why they wouldn't. The Pendos could be limited by software, but that would be easy to change (for a record attempt for example)

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I don't see why they wouldn't. The Pendos could be limited by software, but that would be easy to change (for a record attempt for example)

The Class 91 still has the design capability for 140mph but the major overhaul and maintenance regime make it pretty much impossible to reinstate the 140mph top speed without significant costs and engineering work.

The Pendolino fleet have undergone much the same engineering modifications, and are also limited to 125mph, to reinstate their 140mph top speed, the maintenance regime would need changed and components changed for the original specification items.

The changes have been made in both cases to either increase reliability at the cost of the 140mph capability, or to use lower cost components to either cut costs or to allow more frequent scheduled maintenance as a means to improve overall train reliability.