Intent to prosecute from Thameslink Railway on short fare

[Rumi]

How exactly were you going to pay for the Ladywell - London Bridge (or vice-versa) part of the journey? You can’t tap out / tap in at London Bridge. There are no Oyster readers on the LBG platforms and you - by your own admission - did not have a valid ticket to pass through the barriers

Ladywell doesnt have barriers. At London bridge I didnt need to leave the station and only change the platform to goto Luton same on my way back. I realise that it wasnt the wisest decision and I made multiple wrong decisions that day by not paying the correct fare from the beginning.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Dec 2023 ==

How exactly were you going to pay for the Ladywell - London Bridge (or vice-versa) part of the journey? You can’t tap out / tap in at London Bridge. There are no Oyster readers on the LBG platforms and you - by your own admission - did not have a valid ticket to pass through the barriers

Would you say my response is good to post? I work in finance and as per information shared by everyone here getting a criminal record will get on the DBS and have further implications.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Ladywell doesnt have barriers. At London bridge I didnt need to leave the station and only change the platform to goto Luton same on my way back.

So, are you essentially confirming that you didn't have any tickets between Luton Airport Parkway and Ladywell? Just how many times have you made the trip without having valid tickets for the entirety of your journey?

I work in finance and as per information shared by everyone here getting a criminal record will get on the DBS and have further implications.

Indeed. You really don't want a court conviction. If the answer to the previous question (above) is quite a few, you may well now wish to seek out specialist legal representation. One way or the other, this could prove quite expensive for you.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

If a perusal of your Trainline account reveals several tickets from Luton to Luton Airport Parkway, and vice-versa, with no (inappropriate) tickets to pass through barriers at the other end of your journey(s), Thameslink could take the view that you were - as you have admitted - travelling to/from an unbarriered station.
Something just occurred to me, however.
Thameslink operate trains over a wide geographic area. There could be stations on their network that are a long way from Central London. How do you prove that you didn’t travel to one of THOSE stations, and that a much larger fare was evaded?

 

[spag23]

How do you prove that you didn’t travel to one of THOSE stations, and that a much larger fare was evaded?

The onus would surely be on Thameslink to prove that these distant stations were involved in doughnutting. Difficult, unless they were to find short journey tickets to/from these places, that align with the Luton<>Luton Airport trips.

 

[Kenny G]

Would you say my response is good to post? I work in finance and as per information shared by everyone here getting a criminal record will get on the DBS and have further implications.

In this case full honesty is going to be the best policy. That means you doing a full audit of evasion and arriving at a figure. You definitely do not want a fraud conviction.

 

[John R]

In this case full honesty is going to be the best policy. That means you doing a full audit of evasion and arriving at a figure. You definitely do not want a fraud conviction.

I disagree. The OP has been asked about the one occasion, and that is all they need to discuss in their response. They should not incriminate themselves by mentioning any other instance, as they have not been asked for it. However, they should not make statements to the effect that it was their first time evading the correct fare, as that would not be true.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

The onus would surely be on Thameslink to prove that these distant stations were involved in doughnutting. Difficult, unless they were to find short journey tickets to/from these places, that align with the Luton<>Luton Airport trips.

I see this as akin to the ‘I’ve tapped in but not tapped-out’ scenario on TfL. (They don’t need to know which station you actually travelled to; the maximum fare that’s charged is in itself the deterrent).
I think the OP would actually be in slightly less of a predicament if he had short tickets for the other end of his journeys. It would give GTR a ballpark figure for a settlement offer (assuming they want to make one).

 

[Hadders]

In this case full honesty is going to be the best policy. That means you doing a full audit of evasion and arriving at a figure. You definitely do not want a fraud conviction.

I disagree. The letter from GTR refers to the specific incident on 15th October. It makes no mention of any other incidents nor does it ask @Rumi whether they have made other journeys with incorrect tickets. @Rumi must tell the truth in replying to the letter but they are not required to incriminate themselves either.

Clearly should GTR contact @Rumi again saying that they have found further evidence of ticket irregularities then they would need to be truthful when they rely to that letter.

 

[torontoaddick]

A bit late to this, but all of the Oyster readers at Ladywell were faulty for about a week or so waiting for a main comms connection to be fixed. This was publicised locally so I guess southeastern could confirm if needed.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

A bit late to this, but all of the Oyster readers at Ladywell were faulty for about a week or so waiting for a main comms connection to be fixed. This was publicised locally so I guess southeastern could confirm if needed.

He said upthread that he changes trains at London Bridge, inside the gateline (that is, without passing through a barrier).
I doubt he would have tapped-out at Ladywell, anyway, as that would incur a maximum fare, no tap-in having taken place.

 

[Help please121]

I understand, I didn't realise the gravity of the situation until I found this forum. Thank you so much for guiding me through this.

I can say that was me, seeing your thread you are in a very similar position but if you follow everyone’s advice here, no guarantee But they may offer OOC settlement like they did for me. Like me I never realised the gravity of situation also until it I got caught. They searched through all purchase history and as said by Brissle Girl charged me the full ticket from St Albans all the way to Norfolk even though I “short fared” to get into London and had a full valid ticket from London to Norfolk. Be truthful as people have mentioned and comply. I understand your situation but don’t worry it will eventually get sorted. Bear in mind I have done this on numerous occasions (more than 15-20 for sure) and so GTR searched and made me pay back everything even if I had full fare as mentioned by already. But I got an OOC and didn’t have to go court and didn’t get a criminal record. However I did have tk pay a hefty Out of Court Settlement with £250 administrative fees on top of that.

 

[Rumi]

Hello everyone,

Thank you all for your sharing your expertise and guidance on the matter.

Frankly speaking, this was really intimidating, but all the suggestions from the members really helped me.

Today I received an out-of-court settlement of £62.10. Which I paid instantly.

I am attaching my response and the settlement letter for members.

Thank you all for your help again, I greatly appreciate it.

 

[Haywain]

Wow! I have to say that I find this astonishingly cheap. You are very lucky to get away with paying such a small amount.

 

[furlong]

Wow! I have to say that I find this astonishingly cheap. You are very lucky to get away with paying such a small amount.

Perhaps the amount of coverage given to the Post Office scandal at the moment has focussed their minds on making sure they do everything by the book as they aren't going to want to get caught up in some future rail prosecutions scandal. To me, that amount sounds about right.

 

[Wolfie]

Hello everyone,

Thank you all for your sharing your expertise and guidance on the matter.

Frankly speaking, this was really intimidating, but all the suggestions from the members really helped me.

Today I received an out-of-court settlement of £62.10. Which I paid instantly.

I am attaching my response and the settlement letter for members.

Thank you all for your help again, I greatly appreciate it.

A strong word of advice. Make sure that you buy the correct tickets in future. You've had a warning. You likely won't get another but will be prosecuted.

 

[Haywain]

Perhaps the amount of coverage given to the Post Office scandal at the moment has focussed their minds on making sure they do everything by the book as they aren't going to want to get caught up in some future rail prosecutions scandal. To me, that amount sounds about right.

They are not likely to be caught up in a prosecution scandal for not prosecuting someone.

 

[Wolfie]

Perhaps the amount of coverage given to the Post Office scandal at the moment has focussed their minds on making sure they do everything by the book as they aren't going to want to get caught up in some future rail prosecutions scandal. To me, that amount sounds about right.

The whole concept of private prosecutions is up in the air at the moment. The rail industry will undoubtedly wish to retain the right if possible.