Integrated Rail Plan (IRP)

[deltic]

With so much talk of the Manchester arm being safe, we haven't heard much in recent weeks of whether that includes the Wigan arm.

Because it is scrapped

 

[Purple Orange]

Do folk think there be any scope regarding improving journey times on the ECML from Leeds to York and onwards? Post TRU, Leeds-York will be roughly 23 minutes, but could there be anything improved further north?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Nov 2021 ==

Because it is scrapped

Why would it be scrapped? I’ve not heard that anywhere.

 

[deltic]

Why would it be scrapped? I’ve not heard that anywhere.

To save a couple of billion - hints have been dropped by Shapps that it will go for some time now

 

[Bletchleyite]

To save a couple of billion - hints have been dropped by Shapps that it will go for some time now

How much time does that save to Scotland compared with going classic line from Crewe?

 

[deltic]

How much time does that save to Scotland compared with going classic line from Crewe?

I have seen 10-13 minutes savings been quoted

 

[Roast Veg]

If the FT story is true, strikes me as actually quite a clever solution. Build the bit of TRU around Huddersfield for some early benefits release and then connect part of NPR into it from the Manchester end**. Then the TRU work (which is hardly cheap) isn't abortive. And you've joined up the capacity elements of both, with a decent dent in Manchester-Leeds journey times.

An "Integrated" form of "Plan", one might say, for "Rail" services.

**Think of it as a super-duper version of the Micklehurst loop perhaps.

I'm still trying to piece together which bits of the NIC report shopping list the government are going for. Regional+25, with an added Clayton spur and no(?) ECML upgrade perhaps.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have seen 10-13 minutes savings been quoted

So not huge. Though I guess if it puts it the wrong side of 4 hours it looks bad...

The overall case for it is I guess slightly weak, though, as it will only ever carry 1tph in each direction (the fast Edinburgh/Glasgow splitter).

 

[MidlandMainlie]

Chief political correspondent of the FT now sawing that there WON'T be a high speed line between Leeds and Sheffield, only Birmingham to EMP but NPR will be a new line from Manchester to Huddersfield then upgraded line to Leeds.

https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/1460334195746746372?s=21

 

[matacaster]

If the FT story is true, strikes me as actually quite a clever solution. Build the bit of TRU around Huddersfield for some early benefits release and then connect part of NPR into it from the Manchester end**. Then the TRU work (which is hardly cheap) isn't abortive. And you've joined up the capacity elements of both, with a decent dent in Manchester-Leeds journey times.

An "Integrated" form of "Plan", one might say, for "Rail" services.

**Think of it as a super-duper version of the Micklehurst loop perhaps.

If this is true, then that largely solves the freight question. A new tunnel would presumably be built to at least UIC (or even double-stacking capable) bore. Freight would avoid all but minor bridges east of Huddersfield towards Wakefield and then hull which are mostly being rebuilt anyway.

 

[ABB125]

If this is true, then that largely solves the freight question. A new tunnel would presumably be built to at least UIC (or even double-stacking capable) bore. Freight would avoid all but minor bridges east of Huddersfield towards Wakefield and then hull which are mostly being rebuilt anyway.

Is the Huddersfield-Ravensthorpe upgrade being built to GC gauge? If this forms part of the "new" "high-speed" line across the Pennines, that would make sense in my opinion. But I haven't heard anything about GC gauge, so I suspect it isn't.

 

[Purple Orange]

Chief political correspondent of the FT now sawing that there WON'T be a high speed line between Leeds and Sheffield, only Birmingham to EMP but NPR will be a new line from Manchester to Huddersfield then upgraded line to Leeds.

So that 20 mile line between Leeds & somewhere north of Sheffield is nonsense?

 

[HSTEd]

Is the Huddersfield-Ravensthorpe upgrade being built to GC gauge? If this forms part of the "new" "high-speed" line across the Pennines, that would make sense in my opinion. But I haven't heard anything about GC gauge, so I suspect it isn't.

The upgraded section almost certainly won't be - so it will eventually have to be rebuilt later.

 

[Purple Orange]

The upgraded section almost certainly won't be - so it will eventually have to be rebuilt later.

It won’t be rebuilt. If there is a new build Manchester-Huddersfield line, we should expect HS2/NPR services to usevthe line just like HS2 does with trains to Liverpool and Glasgow. If I am not mistaken, won't the upgraded line be capable of 100 mph speeds, so not too dissimilar to the north WCML.

 

[JKF]

So that 20 mile line between Leeds & somewhere north of Sheffield is nonsense?

I’m not convinced.

One thing this government is known for and probably quite good at is ‘expectations management’. If you are planning to do something unpopular (like axe most of HS2E), suggest something even more unpopular and let it circulate in the press, then when you do actually announce the policy it’ll be better than the pessimistic press reports so seem like ‘good news’. So media hints at no new line from Leeds at all, or no new track for NPR, might just be part of this process. Wait and see if we’re all relieved when these two elements do actually make the plan, and whether this distracts from a rolling back of previous commitments.