Information for GTR Southern passengers during strike (no DOO discussion)

[GW43125]

No, we can only close them, same as with a 377/387.

Have they taken out the open buttons on the pigs a la 377?

 

[sarahj]

Have they taken out the open buttons on the pigs a la 377?

I've never seen the open buttons on a 442 except for the ones in the driving cab. The only open button I have is to remove the locking pin on the doors in the guards van section.

The new bars on the window are a pain in the butt, before I could lean through the open window and close the doors, now I have to get in and reach round the door. Plus cannot give a good look down the platform on dispatch.

 

[GW43125]

I've never seen the open buttons on a 442 except for the ones in the driving cab. The only open button I have is to remove the locking pin on the doors in the guards van section.

The new bars on the window are a pain in the butt, before I could lean through the open window and close the doors, now I have to get in and reach round the door. Plus cannot give a good look down the platform on dispatch.

I would have thought there would have been open buttons from the SWT days.

Also, window bars, really?!

 

[sarahj]

I would have thought there would have been open buttons from the SWT days.

Also, window bars, really?!

Yes, really.

A clue why?

1.11 in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcoWdrerLdU

 

[Taunton]

There is also an all-pervading lack of urgency/promptness about the railway these days such that time recovery is not seen as a priority (but which seems to be remarkably absent where connections are concerned!)

I'm afraid I find this as well. It seems that every effort must be made for punctuality with sending connections away just as its passengers approach, but nowhere else. There's nothing like this zealousness about getting the main inbound train to be on time in the first place.

 

[swt class 450]

No, we can only close them, same as with a 377/387.

I didnt realise the 442s dont have open buttons for the Guard. I know when they were with SWT they definitely did (as the Guard had to both open and close the doors). I guess they must have removed them or changed the panels. Am i correct in thinking Southern Guards are no longer able to use the middle coach slam door to despatch?

I think the lack of door open buttons in the panels on 375 / 377 / 387 is one of the major design failures (especially if you have to reopen the doors for someone who is stuck or if they ever transfer to a TOC which requires the Guard to open the doors). So are 171 / 313 / 455 the only remaining Southern stock with door open buttons for the Guard (or have they been removed on 313 as well)?

 

[Class455]

I think the lack of door open buttons in the panels on 375 / 377 / 387 is one of the major design failures (especially if you have to reopen the doors for someone who is stuck or if they ever transfer to a TOC which requires the Guard to open the doors). So are 171 / 313 / 455 the only remaining Southern stock with door open buttons for the Guard (or have they been removed on 313 as well)?

I know the SWT ones have panels, but I have never seen them before in the Southern 455's. If so, whereabouts are they located?
The conductor can signal to the driver if they see someone stuck on the 377's, or they can make an announcement for the driver to contact the conductor, which I've heard before. I know that the panel only opens the set of doors nearest to it on the electrostars. Im surprised they can close all of the doors on the 171, but not the 377's.

 

[tsr]

I think http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/update/2017-01-31/train-collides-with-buffers-at-brighton/ elaborates on your "operating incident"

I believe it does...

 

[swt class 450]

I know the SWT ones have panels, but I have never seen them before in the Southern 455's. If so, whereabouts are they located?

They have Guards panels in the rear cabs. They dont have any Guards panels anywhere else though. Southern 455s still require Guards between Dorking and Horsham and between Leatherhead and Guildford and between Clapham Junction and Shepherds Bush.

 

[GW43125]

Yes, really.

A clue why?

1.11 in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcoWdrerLdU

I'm not going to go back into this entire argument, but surely someone could have realized the dispatch implications...

Also, it's a pretty recent addition, is it not?

 

[tsr]

I know the SWT ones have panels, but I have never seen them before in the Southern 455's. If so, whereabouts are they located?
The conductor can signal to the driver if they see someone stuck on the 377's, or they can make an announcement for the driver to contact the conductor, which I've heard before. I know that the panel only opens the set of doors nearest to it on the electrostars. Im surprised they can close all of the doors on the 171, but not the 377's.

Southern 455s only have conductor panels in the cab vestibules, which are not public areas. This is unlike SWT 455s which have saloon door panels in most coaches.

The usual way to get a driver to reopen doors on a 377 (and as I understand it a 442, though I don't have much to do with those) is to use the cab-to-cab communication - failing that you can use a bell code or go to the driver's cab in person. Using the PA is quite rare.

171s have door open and close controls in the saloon of each coach and in each cab. Either type can be used without any change in function by the conductor (unlike 377s where only bells, rather than functional door buttons, are available in the cabs). On 171s working the Uckfield Line, the conductor must open doors due to the requirement to select the correct number of coaches for door release at any of the short platforms (Norwood Junction & South Croydon-Woldingham, as well as out of course stops elsewhere in the zones). This can't be done by the driver, beyond a selection of the front coach only, which is only permitted on the Marshlink. On both the Uckfield and Marshlink routes, the conductor has controls for door closure which they will use from their saloon or cab panel.

 

[swt class 450]

Southern 455s only have conductor panels in the cab vestibules, which are not public areas. This is unlike SWT 455s which have saloon door panels in most coaches.

The usual way to get a driver to reopen doors on a 377 (and as I understand it a 442, though I don't have much to do with those) is to use the cab-to-cab communication - failing that you can use a bell code or go to the driver's cab in person. Using the PA is quite rare.

171s have door open and close controls in the saloon of each coach and in each cab. Either type can be used without any change in function by the conductor (unlike 377s where only bells, rather than functional door buttons, are available in the cabs). On 171s working the Uckfield Line, the conductor must open doors due to the requirement to select the correct number of coaches for door release at any of the short platforms (Norwood Junction & South Croydon-Woldingham, as well as out of course stops elsewhere in the zones). This can't be done by the driver, beyond a selection of the front coach only, which is only permitted on the Marshlink. On both the Uckfield and Marshlink routes, the conductor has controls for door closure which they will use from their saloon or cab panel.

Am i correct in thinking that 3 - 3 - 1 is the bell / beep / buzz (or whatever sound they use) code to tell the driver to open the doors?

 

[Domh245]

I'm not going to go back into this entire argument, but surely someone could have realized the dispatch implications...

Also, it's a pretty recent addition, is it not?

It was a (IMO) kneejerk reaction to the man who decapitated himself by leaning out of the window of one in August 2016.

 

[sarahj]

I didnt realise the 442s dont have open buttons for the Guard. I know when they were with SWT they definitely did (as the Guard had to both open and close the doors). I guess they must have removed them or changed the panels. Am i correct in thinking Southern Guards are no longer able to use the middle coach slam door to despatch?

I think the lack of door open buttons in the panels on 375 / 377 / 387 is one of the major design failures (especially if you have to reopen the doors for someone who is stuck or if they ever transfer to a TOC which requires the Guard to open the doors). So are 171 / 313 / 455 the only remaining Southern stock with door open buttons for the Guard (or have they been removed on 313 as well)?

We mainly dispatch from the middle slam doors. The door open buttons are still there on a 313 (cab ends only) but we don't open the doors anymore*.

* we still can if we had too.

 

[RichardKing]

I think I definitely spoke too soon (sorry)! There seems to be loads and loads of short forms this evening.

I appear to have especially jinxed the East Coastway, with the line between Newhaven and Seaford blocked because of electrical supply problems

 

[swt class 450]

We mainly dispatch from the middle slam doors. The door open buttons are still there on a 313 (cab ends only) but we don't open the doors anymore*.

* we still can if we had too.

Thanks for the info. Im pretty sure i have seen Guards on 313s release the doors again for late running passengers a few times.

 

[Deepgreen]

I believe it does...

Including a very clumsy attempt at preventing people identification! There is another thread for this, BTW.

 

[Wookiee]

This is a genuine question but I would be grateful for an informed comment. It also does not apply just to Southern, but across much of the network.

Evening peak services, say the 1740 from London Bridge, are allowed 63 minutes to Brighton, with five stops. Now a while ago Southern ran a special train on this route, non-stop, in 37 minutes. It complied with every speed restriction throughout and used standard stock. Now I don't believe five stops account for another 26 minutes, so it seems there is an element (or more) of padding/recovery time in the schedules.

Looking at the run quoted above, it lost 3 minutes to East Croydon. It then lost another 2 minutes stopped at Three Bridges. Yet not only was there zero time recovery, but it lost further time to Lewes, sufficient to miss a connection that it (presumably) is timed to make.

So how is it that any minutes lost to delay nowadays seem incapable of being made up in what appear to be schedules by no means timed to the hilt, and in fact further time gets lost. That record run did not break any of the regulations which presumably still apply. Time was when connections were "held" (and the world didn't fall apart when they were), but now, with the connection apparently desperate to be on time to the second, meanwhile the main train can just lose time like this and not recover any of it.

In addition to the other answers, the 'speed run' was carried out when there were a number of stretches of 100mph running on the BML.

 

[Deepgreen]

RTT shows a train - 5B30 - as 0840 ECS Redhill to London Bridge today. This confuses me as I and many others were on 2B30 to London Bridge (i.e. the service version of this working)! Nothing left Redhill at 0840, let alone as ECS. Thoughts, anyone?

 

[infobleep]

Someone was hit by a train at East Croydon today so there are delays. Thoughts go out to all those involved.

GTRs premium Gatwick Express service is currently not running as a result so passengees have to catch their non premium Southern services.

Lots and lots of people on platform 4 at Gatwick Airport. Not seen it that busy for ages. I was on 10.57 departure from there. It was the first time in about 20 minutes. Shows how popular Gatwick Airports is.

Lots of Thameslink cancelled to. The service that goes onto form the 10.59 from Three Bridges was cancelled at City Thameslink due to a fault but they haven't canalled the 10.59. It's just delayed. I suspect it won't run though.

 

[infobleep]

When I was at Woking the other evening they referred to two incidents between Woking and Wimbledon. More details were online.

At East Croydon just now they actually mentioned a person being hit by a train. I thought the current practice was to give out less details at the station to avoid others getting similar ideas.

 

[Deepgreen]

Someone was hit by a train at East Croydon today so there are delays. Thoughts go out to all those involved.

GTRs premium Gatwick Express service is currently not running as a result so pass. Evers have to catch their non premium Southern services.

Lots and lots of people on platform 4 at Gatwick Airport. Not seem it that busy for ages. I was on 10.57 departure from there. It was the first time in about 20 minutes. Shows how popular Gatwick Airports is.

Lots of Thameslink cancelled to. The service that goes onto form the 10.59 from Three Bridges was cancelled at City Thameslink due to a fault but they haven't canalled the 10.59. It's just delayed. I suspect it won't run though.

May I suggest that you observe the Mods' request to check your messages before posting - this is garbled!

 

[Deepgreen]

In addition to the other answers, the 'speed run' was carried out when there were a number of stretches of 100mph running on the BML.

Have these now gone, and, if so, why?

 

[infobleep]

May I suggest that you observe the Mods' request to check your messages before posting - this is garbled!

I do try to check my messages in advance but I don't spot everything. Unfortunately Google don't make a spellchecker for my mobile and the forum web site isn't mobile friendly, which is why I use another app, which is.

I've now corrected that error and another I spotted. I do try to correct the errors as soon as I spot them though.

My brain at times is more focused with getting the message out rather than getting the spelling and grammar perfect.

I would find a preview function useful but nothing exists on the app and the forum web page isn't mobile friendly. I do a lot of my mobile. For more communication on it than via the computer.

 

[chriskeene]

In addition to the other answers, the 'speed run' was carried out when there were a number of stretches of 100mph running on the BML.

That's interesting, thanks. So parts of the BML have got slower, presumably 100 down to 90? I'd be interested in the background/reasons behind this.

thanks
chris

 

[Sunset route]

That's interesting, thanks. So parts of the BML have got slower, presumably 100 down to 90? I'd be interested in the background/reasons behind this.

thanks
chris

I believe it's all down to maintenance, 100hph railways cost more to maintain and require more inspections with the lines being closed more often for those track and point inspections. The fact that it was upgraded was for only the Connex Express 319s that could barely optain full linespeed in the areas that were passed made it not worth it.

 

[gavin]

@PA

#Breaking A deal to end the Aslef dispute over driver-only trains on Southern Railway is set to be announced later today, sources told @PA

 

[gavin]

@HeartLondonNews

A deal's been reached between the drivers' union ASLEF and Southern Rail to end their dispute over driver-only operated trains.

 

[JaJaWa]

TUC press release - Successful resolution to talks between GTR (Southern Rail) and ASLEF
http://www.southernrailway.com/southern/news/tuc-press-release-successful-resolution-to-talks-between-gtr-southern-rail-and-aslef/

TUC press release - Successful resolution to talks between GTR (Southern Rail) and ASLEF


Date:02 Feb 2017

Press release issued by the TUC today:
Successful resolution to talks between GTR (Southern Rail) and ASLEF


Following two weeks of intensive talks, the parties have now reached an agreement about the long-running dispute between ASLEF and GTR Southern. This resolves the current dispute, subject to securing the support of ASLEF members, and no further industrial action is planned.

The negotiations have been jointly chaired by Frances O’Grady, the TUC General Secretary, and Andy Meadows, HR Director of Abellio UK.

Frances and Andy said:

“The negotiators from both sides have worked hard and co-operatively to achieve this breakthrough. We have particularly appreciated the positive leadership shown by Nick Brown and Mick Whelan. This long-running dispute has clearly been extraordinarily difficult for both staff and passengers, and we are glad that the parties have reached agreement on a way forward.”

Frances O’Grady added:

“I welcome the decision of ASLEF to consult its members on the new offer that has now been made by GTR Southern. The TUC is pleased that we were able to play a part in finding a positive way forward."

Mick Whelan, General Secretary of ASLEF, said:

“I am pleased that we have finally been able to reach an agreement with the company which reflects the concerns of train drivers. I believe this deal can deliver a safer and appropriately staffed railway for passengers on Southern rail and I will be recommending it to ASLEF members.”

Nick Brown, GTR’s Chief Operating Officer, said:

“Our aim has always been to reach agreement with the unions on our proposals and we're delighted to have secured a deal today with ASLEF to end their dispute. It's good news for passengers, the regional economy and staff. After the misery and disruption to people's work and family lives, we are pleased we can start to move forward and deliver a better railway for the travelling public.”

ENDS

Notes to Editors:

- The agreement will be put to ASLEF members in Southern rail in a referendum, with a recommendation to approve. The result of the referendum will be on 16 February 2017.
- The talks were hosted by the TUC and co-chaired by Frances O’Grady (TUC General Secretary) and Andy Meadows (HR Director, Abellio UK). They were between ASLEF and GTR, who operate the Southern rail franchise. They began on 18 January 2017, following a request by ASLEF to the TUC.

- Full text of the statement to be read by Frances O’Grady and Andy Meadows at Congress House


“Following two weeks of intensive talks held at Congress House to resolve the dispute, we are pleased to announce that ASLEF and GTR Southern have reached an agreement.


“For the avoidance of doubt, this means that subject to a referendum of ASLEF members in Southern, the dispute between ASLEF and Southern is over.


“On behalf of myself and Andy Meadows of Abellio, I would like to thank the negotiating teams from both parties to the dispute. They have worked long and hard to achieve this breakthrough.


“In particular, we want to place on record our appreciation for the constructive leadership shown by Nick Brown and Mick Whelan throughout these talks.


“We recognise that this long running dispute has been extraordinarily difficult for everyone, including for passengers and those staff involved.


“We are glad that the parties have negotiated an agreement that not only provides a sound basis on which to resolve their dispute, but also to restore good industrial relations for the future.”rdquo;

*

Contacts:

Press OfficeT: 020 7467 1248E: media@tuc.org.uk
Alex RossiterT: 020 7467 1285M: 07887 572130E: arossiter@tuc.org.uk
Tim NicholsT: 020 7467 1388M: 07808 761844E: tnichols@tuc.org.uk
Michael PidgeonT: 020 7467 1372M: 07717 531150E: mpidgeon@tuc.org.uk
*

 

[infobleep]

Someone asked about having first class declassified on a packed train. Twitter staff rightly said it was the job of the onboard staff to do that.

After that @mtinge ask this:

@SouthernRailUK @mjinspire who will do this if there isn't an OBS?

https://twitter.com/mtinge/status/827214770633838592

Have does it work for Thameslink?