Tom B
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Information for GTR Southern passengers during strike (no DOO discussion)
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swt class 450
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Does anyone know why there are no Redhill to Tonbridge trains during the strike? The majority of Drivers and Guards on this line are employed by their sister company Southeastern so surely those journeys shouldnt be affected? Surely at the very least Southeastern could have run a Redhill to Tonbridge shuttle once every two hours between 06:00 and 00:00 using just one unit?
Would it also not have been possible to train a few of their management Guards on 171s to operate a shuttle between Oxted (or Hurst Green) and Uckfield every two hours between 06:00 and 00:00 using just one unit?
Also i was told by a proper Guard that some of their management Guards who are working during the strike have received as little as one day of training which doesnt really seem that safe.
Would it also not have been possible to train a few of their management Guards on 171s to operate a shuttle between Oxted (or Hurst Green) and Uckfield every two hours between 06:00 and 00:00 using just one unit?
Also i was told by a proper Guard that some of their management Guards who are working during the strike have received as little as one day of training which doesnt really seem that safe.
...Yep or make the east grinsteads hourly and the uckfields hourly........
Dont forget there are lots of drivers sitting around... they could also run shuttles from Redhill/Purley/East Croydon to London DOO to cover for the absent coastal services.
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Minstral25
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They have been running a Three Bridges to Victoria shuttle which mysteriously disappears at 6:30 pm.
If Redhill is DOO suitable then why no trains after 6:35 from London. They must have Drivers?
This would seem logical (not that that applies to GTR) and SE wouldn't need to provide a unit, just crew, as the service uses 377s anyway. Would be interested to know the reason why the aren't operating a service here.
Indeed, last time there was a strike and management 'guards' stepped in, one of them tried to dispatch a train against a red signal.
I would be really interested to find out the real reason.
My guess is that Southern are treading carefully in case running DOO trains via Redhill would contravene the legal agreement as an 'extension of DOO'. While Redhill is DOO suitable, (almost) no Southern services currently run DOO to it.
If the agreement only allows a certain quantum of DOO trains on the outer-network, then only the Brighton trains can run DOO since they have been DOO since Brighton Express services went over to 319s in the late 1990s.
In the normal timetable the daytime Reigate / Tonbridge service runs with a guard south of East Croydon even though it seems that it should be running DOO to Redhill.
Otherwise, why have Southern trains off the Arun Valley or Coastway run with guards since 377s were introduced all the way into London once on the Brighton Main Line when the whole of the route is cleared for DOO (albeit with the apparent 9/10-car limit)?
Bishopstone
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In addition to the strike timetable, I note the Horsham-Victoria via Dorking service is operating today.
Also, non-folding bicycles are now permitted again, subject to the standard policy restrictions on peak services.
Also, non-folding bicycles are now permitted again, subject to the standard policy restrictions on peak services.
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Deepgreen
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I wonder where they found the conductors for that from, then.
So what was the out come? Were people left stranded? I guess no riot or it would have been on the news. Unless of course the news don't care due to the Olympics or is that just the BBC?
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Deepgreen
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Deleted - repeat of previous information.
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tsr
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A pool of normal conductors on special diagrams. Some other duties also being covered.
Many of the "contingency guards" do not sign the route. I will refrain from calling them "management conductors" as they are by no means actually all managers.
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Interesting. The National Rail Enquiries disruption notice stated at one point that should the strike end early, the timetable would have to remain in place. I wonder if that will actually be the case or whether someone accidentally didn't spot that this might not be the case in a 5 day strike.
The Friday timetables are not in National Rail Enquiries but Thursdays are.
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Does anyone know when first class will become classified again?
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The Friday timetables are not in National Rail Enquiries but Thursdays are.
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Does anyone know when first class will become classified again?
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Deepgreen
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I would assume as soon as the strike ends, but as that is, I believe, at 2200 today, I doubt anything will be enforced until tomorrow (if at all - given recent pre-strike evidence!).
Bishopstone
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Declassified tomorrow (Thursday) according to Southern Twitter feed, with Friday still being reviewed.
During the strike service, is there any reason why more Gatwick Express trains cannot stop at Clapham Junction and East Croydon? I notice the 17.42 and 18.00 do but the 17.30 doesn't and I don't know if any others do. It's not as if there aren't others that don't go beyond Gatwick Airport. I'm not certain of the turn around times at Gatwick, for those that do terminate there but would an extra 3 minutes per station matter? I use 3 minutes because some gaps between services can be as little as 3 minutes from stations. I don't know if that is the case at East Croydon or Clapham Junction.
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Are the following reasons a user error or system limitation or did Southern really cancel a train because of overcrowding because of an earlier cancellation. Surrey you'd want as many services running as possible.
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Are the following reasons a user error or system limitation or did Southern really cancel a train because of overcrowding because of an earlier cancellation. Surrey you'd want as many services running as possible.
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Southern's website was showing their West London Line services cancelled due to industrial action today even though they had already been withdrawn in the emergency timetable
It now turns out that the 17.30 is going to change stop at Clapham Junction and East Croydon. Is this the first night they have decided to do that? I doubt it was due to someone residing my post on here.
This actually helps me out, assuming it stops. It did stop.
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This actually helps me out, assuming it stops. It did stop.
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Before the next train left Three Bridges (18:26) the "contingency guard" announced that it was going to terminate at Chichester instead of Barnham.
Never known people power to change the destination of a train
swt class 450
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Yes indeed. I heard about that. Most of them are clueless. So far during these three strikes i have personally seen the following two things happen involving management Guards.
The Guard was in the 8th coach of an 8 coach train standing by the doors with the panel open as we pulled in to Moulsecoomb which can only fit 4 coaches. So we stopped at the station and he announced that we were being held at a red signal (when we were in the short platform). Finally he realised that there was a short platform and walked down in to the 4th coach. Surely he should know about short platforms.
A passenger boards at Glynde and asks the management Guard if the train is stopping at Berwick. His response is "im not sure. Let me check" and he looks at his papers. Surely he should know where his train is stopping at especially when it is the next stop.
Personally i think that these management or contingency Guards need far more training. It doesnt really seem that safe.
It once happenws at Haywards Heath I believe or if not their another station. That was some years ago though.
Today Govia are running strike timetable but said they would try to extend the hours of service where possible.
Cananyone explain why the strike timetable has to remain in place today? Are trains nit in the right place and if so, had the strike lasted until Friday, would Saturday have seen an amended timetable as Friday will tomorrow? They are going to try and run additional services today. Will any of these be on lines currently getting no service?
Surely they are paying staff to work today. What are the staff doing if there are not the trains running on these linea? I understand the need to get trains in place for tomorrow but surely they can run some services to do that.
In disruption notice on National Rail Enquiries it states:
http://m.nationalrail.co.uk/pj/disruption/details/2AD5E94ABC0F4DE996B6B1DDFCE09167
So does this mean first class is now classified, given the strike is over, despite the fact no more trains are running this morning it seems or has someone just forgotten to amend the while disruption notice?
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If they are legally allowed to be there based in the training they have had then I guess there isn't much that can be done about it. If legally it could be found that they shouldn't be there, owning to lack of decent training, then may be someone could take them to court over it.
After all at the heart of the dispute is safety.
Another thing I've noticed, which I wasn't aware of, is that Gatwick Express from Brighton services are stopping additionally at East Croydon during the rush hour this morning. Does anyone know why they are not stopping at Clapham Junction? Last night they were stopping additionally at Clapham Junction and East Croydon when heading from Victoira to Brighton.
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Well I thought all Gatwick Express services were stopping at East Croydon but not the 7.12 isn't and I'd hoped to catch that instead of the 6.57. Oh well I should have checked every Gatwick Express service.
I can't see how stopping additionally at East Croydon would be a problem, given less trains are running. Again can't see why Clapham Junction can the stopped at, given less trains are running.
Thrre are 6 services to East Croydon between 8 and 9 but only 3 between 7 and 8 so additionally stopping a Gatwick Express could help. But this is GTR I'm talking about!
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SpacePhoenix
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Presumably the strike tabletable is what's loaded into TRUST for today (how involved is the process for adding, editing or removing services from TRUST?).
Driver's hours might be a consideration as well depending on if it's down between certain days of the week or on a rolling basis
Drivers aren't on strike though and with less services, less of them required so surely some must be under their hours? I realise you just trying to find possible reasons.
I don't know about Trust but therw was an upgrade to Darwin recently, which isn't the same thing admittedly but I'd hope they might have some bulk update facilities in Trust. Or is it very old and not helpful, like how a lot of software for large organisations seems to be designed? Even new software for large organisations at times is badly design with no one seeming to care, except people like myself.
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SpacePhoenix
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Does any given service irrespective of TOC/FOC, whether it's an ECS move or in service, does it have to be listed in TRUST to be legally allowed to operate or can moves happen without being entered into TRUST first?
I thought everything went into Trust but someone with actual knowledge will know. Plenty of them on here, along with all us arm chair users!
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Interesting to see that there are just 2 services from Haywards Heath to Clapham Junction today but 11 services from Clapham Junction to Haywards Heath and those 11 are not all Southern services.
I wonder if anyone has turned up at a station today, excreting the emergency timetable, now the strike has ended. I'm sure GTR have been doing their best to tell people the strike may be over but not your strike timetable.
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The latest poster at Haywards Heath. They are going to try and run trains on additional routes today. If they do that, is there a chance people will get stranded if they are able to run a service up but then find they can't run one back?
I believe when strikes start midway through a day, that's the reason soom morning services get cancelled.
It seems the issue is surrounding rosters. So I assume driver rosters. Drivers are obviously working for a different routine and I guess minimum break times between rosters means it's very complicated to try and go back to the pre strike timetable.
I wonder how many additional trains will run by the end of today?
Of course striking guards haven't been working so they could return at news enough a moments notice. Most of them must currently just be sitting round twiddling their thumbs as they are surplus to requirements today. They could be called at a moment 's notice I guess they are probably rosters to the pre strike emergency timetable as of they changed their roster, wouldn't it be problematic tomorrow?
On the flip side I am on a class 700 train. Not been on one of these before. I assume it has no first class. It feels odd and more European metro than mainline service.
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This is the reason I saw Southern give on Twitter, though they said they'd try to add services where possible.
The 8.27 to Clapham Junction was formed of only 4 coaches today and started short due to shortage of drivers.
It left East Croydon 7 minutes late, which delayed the 8.35, which was 12 coaches.
Had they allowed the 8.19 Gatwick Express to stop at Clapham Junction however, you'd probably wouldn't have e had so many passengers trying to get to Clapham Junction on these two services.
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Deepgreen
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I thought everything went into Trust but someone with actual knowledge will know. Plenty of them on here, along with all us arm chair users!
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Interesting to see that there are just 2 services from Haywards Heath to Clapham Junction today but 11 services from Clapham Junction to Haywards Heath and those 11 are not all Southern services.
I wonder if anyone has turned up at a station today, excreting the emergency timetable, now the strike has ended. I'm sure GTR have been doing their best to tell people the strike may be over but not your strike timetable.
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The latest poster at Haywards Heath. They are going to try and run trains on additional routes today. If they do that, is there a chance people will get stranded if they are able to run a service up but then find they can't run one back?
I believe when strikes start midway through a day, that's the reason soom morning services get cancelled.
It seems the issue is surrounding rosters. So I assume driver rosters. Drivers are obviously working for a different routine and I guess minimum break times between rosters means it's very complicated to try and go back to the pre strike timetable.
I wonder how many additional trains will run by the end of today?
Of course striking guards haven't been working so they could return at news enough a moments notice. Most of them must currently just be sitting round twiddling their thumbs as they are surplus to requirements today. They could be called at a moment 's notice I guess they are probably rosters to the pre strike emergency timetable as of they changed their roster, wouldn't it be problematic tomorrow?
On the flip side I am on a class 700 train. Not been on one of these before. I assume it has no first class. It feels odd and more European metro than mainline service.
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Now that's (bold) an image! Most passengers would probably want to though!
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National Rail are stating that no trains will run between Dorking and Horsham - many did yesterday and are again today. I wonder how many other routes that they claim to be bereft of service actually have trains?
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