Information for GTR Southern passengers during strike (no DOO discussion)

[sarahj]

There have been mutterings on the BBC website and others that it's odd that Epsom seems to be the place getting a better service, and the new Transport minister serves Epsom.

I'm sure pure, pure coincidence.

 

[tony6499]

There have been mutterings on the BBC website and others that it's odd that Epsom seems to be the place getting a better service, and the new Transport minister serves Epsom.

I'm sure pure, pure coincidence.

Of course it is a coincidence, GTR haven't got the intelligence to try and make sure the Transport Minister's constituency gets extra trains

 

[Philip C]

Well the above looks good, lets see how it goes. My continuing sympathies with staff getting shafted by management, Im on your side.

Could we please keep this thread clear of DOO discussion? I cannot be alone in finding this thread useful for service information etc.

 

[Deepgreen]

Yesterday evening I witnessed another Southern information farce. The 1649 Victoria to Three Bridges (which used to divide at Redhill with a portion to Reigate), has run as a single working to Three Bridges under the emergency timetable. However, the on-train indicators and recorded announcments yesterday frequently and consistently informed us that it would divide at Redhill. This caused a large number of passengers with heavy luggage to struggle through to the front unit, being bound for Gatwick. I alight at Redhill anyway so didn't care where I was in the train.

However, literally as we came a stop at Redhill, the conductor informed us, for the first time on the entire journey, that the whole train was going to Three Bridges, and at least one Reigate passenger whom I recognised (wearing earphones) remained on board to be taken away to Gatwick! Given the repeated scrolling information (backed up by simultaneous announcements) that it would divide, he couldn't really be blamed for assuming they were right and missing the conductor's single corrective announcement. The conductor's uselessly-late announcement at Redhill was another appalling piece of mis-information. No wonder people get angry! All those people who struggled through the train to be in the "correct portion" also wasted their efforts and needlessly crowded into the front unit when they could have remained spread out through the whole train.

 

[highdyke]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...muter-diaries-of-the-southern-rail-nightmare?

 

[AlterEgo]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...muter-diaries-of-the-southern-rail-nightmare?

Communications director, Tory parliamentarian, charity worker, health service manager.

Just in case people don't believe me that those are the sorts of people you have to engage.

Here's another story: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...eaten-a-fare-strike-amid-southern-rail-delay/

Notice the people interviewed in that one too: communications consultant, actress, manager of a chain of restaurants, management consultant.

The train isn't full of street sweepers you know!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also, note from the two articles, where eight people were interviewed - how many expressed support with the striking staff or RMT?

None.

Wake up!

(This isn't a DOO post, more a point about public opinion and info)

 

[highdyke]

Ah but if you read the RMT and ASLEF journal, railwaymen are the struggling working class, and need to teach these sorts of people a lesson and our political masters. Bloody Tories, capitalist pigs, management w*nkers and graduates. They forget to mention most of them are on higher salaries, while these people are paying £5k for season tickets, their members gets it for free. They get their training for free, while some of these people have paid £20-60k or more.

The MP is on £74k, some members of ASLEF are on higher than than for similar hours..

Some people do support them because they are conned to believe their safety is at risk, and think Drivers are on £20k and Guards are similar to senior cabin crew on £18k.

Mind the reality gap.

The left loves a victim, the Guardian and Mirror will soon jump to their aid, about the safety risks and social injustice, even if it is all manufactured.

 

[Haig paxton]

Ah but if you read the RMT and ASLEF journal, railwaymen are the struggling working class, and need to teach these sorts of people a lesson and our political masters. They forget to mention most of them are on higher salaries, while these people are paying £5k for season tickets, their members gets it for free.

The MP is on £74k, some members of ASLEF are on higher than than for similar hours..

So as a former railwayman yourself, now you even grudge your former workmates free travel? As for ASLEF members being on more than £74k, it certainly can't be drivers as they only get £49,660 so they must be knocking in a helluva lot of overtime to earn an additional £25k. Once again, a bitter little man who thinks rail staff should roll over and let THEIR masters do as they please.

 

[AlterEgo]

So as a former railwayman yourself, now you even grudge your former workmates free travel? As for ASLEF members being on more than £74k, it certainly can't be drivers as they only get £49,660 so they must be knocking in a helluva lot of overtime to earn an additional £25k. Once again, a bitter little man who thinks rail staff should roll over and let THEIR masters do as they please.

Tiresome codswallop.

Do you write the RMT's press releases?

 

[Haig paxton]

Tiresome codswallop.

Do you write the RMT's press releases?

No and I agree the RMT miss an open goal with virtually everything they release. The guy they put in front of the news cameras here in Scotland can only trot out vague sentences about safety and shutting doors.
What I do not like is forum members who think rail staff are paid too much. I don't know what it's like to be a guard or driver on Southern and I've used their services as a passenger a few times, as well as FCC, all I can say is it was a stressful experience so I feel sorry for those who have to rely on the services there. However I know that the blame for all of this lies firmy with GTR management and not the staff on the trains.

 

[ComUtoR]

while these people are paying £5k for season tickets, their members gets it for free.

I don't get a "season ticket" and a lot of us rarely use our travel passes, we're too busy working. I commute to work by car and when I decide to use the train why shouldn't I get that for free ? Many Many Many Many MANY sectors give their staff in work benefits. I used to get 75% off clothes at one point and in one job I got 3 square a day. Why should the Rail industry be any different ? MP's get a subsidised bar. Can I get a discount at my local watering hole ?

They get their training for free, while some of these people have paid £20-60k or more.

Being selective again I see. Many Many many many MANY jobs get free training, others pay, and others LIKE DRIVERS AND OTHER RAIL EMPLOYESS get a reduced wage whilst training and reduced salary whilst on probation. So you can, in effect, say that Drivers pay for their training.

The rail industry is a job like many others I get paid more than some, less than others, I get some benefits but not others. It should not be subjected to such denigration by small minded individuals because of what they earn or benefit from.

Personal I'd like an expense account and being able to flip my house and get a discount on council tax. I'd like a discount in my supermarket and I'd like free food again. Cheaper clothes would be awesome and 6 weeks off during the summer I'd sell my soul for. However; I'm not bitter of jealous that others get those benefits. At the moment, I'll take the cash.

 

[highdyke]

So as a former railwayman yourself, now you even grudge your former workmates free travel? As for ASLEF members being on more than £74k, it certainly can't be drivers as they only get £49,660 so they must be knocking in a helluva lot of overtime to earn an additional £25k. Once again, a bitter little man who thinks rail staff should roll over and let THEIR masters do as they please.

Nope just pointing our the facts rather the PR. MPs do a lot of hours, their salaries are not that much different tbh.

Personally I like an informed debate. If you want to base all your views on the rhetoric feel free. I don't for a minute think some people are going to like it, because it doesn't fit with their view of the world. I'll stand up for what I think is the truth however unpopular it makes me.

 

[Haig paxton]

Nope just pointing our the facts rather the PR. MPs do a lot of hours, their salaries are not that much different tbh.

Personally I like an informed debate. If you want to base all your views on the rhetoric feel free. I don't for minute think some people are going to like it, because it doesn't fit with their view of the world. I'll stand up for what I think is the truth however unpopular it makes me.

Do you know any Southern drivers who make more than £74k? If so prove this instead of making things up. An informed debate relies on accurate information, not guessing and lies.

 

[AlterEgo]

Do you know any Southern drivers who make more than £74k? If so prove this instead of making things up. An informed debate relies on accurate information, not guessing and lies.

He said ASLEF members.

Here's one driver on £70k (obviously this includes a lot of overtime).

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2636850&postcount=9

 

[highdyke]

Do you know any Southern drivers who make more than £74k? If so prove this instead of making things up. An informed debate relies on accurate information, not guessing and lies.

I know what sorts of hours they work having done it myself. 50 plus hour weeks with Sundays is typical, that would bring you out at those sorts of rates of pay. Some drivers have been known to hit £100k

Bloody good luck to them. But please don't keep this rhetoric up of working class, there are people with genuine low salaries with poor conditions in this country and they do need our sympathy. Behave like professionals and sort the problems out rather than make more.

 

[speedy_sticks]

Communications director, Tory parliamentarian, charity worker, health service manager.

Just in case people don't believe me that those are the sorts of people you have to engage.

Here's another story: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...eaten-a-fare-strike-amid-southern-rail-delay/

Notice the people interviewed in that one too: communications consultant, actress, manager of a chain of restaurants, management consultant.

The train isn't full of street sweepers you know!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also, note from the two articles, where eight people were interviewed - how many expressed support with the striking staff or RMT?

None.

Wake up!

(This isn't a DOO post, more a point about public opinion and info)

Oh so disabled customer opinions don't count?

 

[AlterEgo]

Oh so disabled customer opinions don't count?

Where did I say that?

Complain to the newspapers (both ends of the political spectrum there) if you like. How do you know none of those interviewed were disabled?

 

[tsr]

Yesterday evening I witnessed another Southern information farce. The 1649 Victoria to Three Bridges (which used to divide at Redhill with a portion to Reigate), has run as a single working to Three Bridges under the emergency timetable. However, the on-train indicators and recorded announcments yesterday frequently and consistently informed us that it would divide at Redhill. This caused a large number of passengers with heavy luggage to struggle through to the front unit, being bound for Gatwick. I alight at Redhill anyway so didn't care where I was in the train.

However, literally as we came a stop at Redhill, the conductor informed us, for the first time on the entire journey, that the whole train was going to Three Bridges, and at least one Reigate passenger whom I recognised (wearing earphones) remained on board to be taken away to Gatwick! Given the repeated scrolling information (backed up by simultaneous announcements) that it would divide, he couldn't really be blamed for assuming they were right and missing the conductor's single corrective announcement. The conductor's uselessly-late announcement at Redhill was another appalling piece of mis-information. No wonder people get angry! All those people who struggled through the train to be in the "correct portion" also wasted their efforts and needlessly crowded into the front unit when they could have remained spread out through the whole train.

Right, that's actually a bit of a disservice to what happened. As it just so happens I was able to tell exactly what happened on that service. It's by no means as clear cut as you think.

The conductor and driver diagrams for that train stated that it would divide at Redhill and run all the way through to both destinations. This was also reflected by the information that staff looked up at stations using official software. None of the crew, of which 4 were involved in the operation of that train up to and including Redhill, were familiar with running this train under the emergency timetable and therefore presumed, as of course you would if your diagram said so, that it would divide. It was noted just prior to departure from Victoria that the CIS systems were not showing a split at Redhill, but Control could not be reached by phone to properly clarify the situation until the train had reached Coulsdon South. (The station staff were asked for advice at East Croydon, which was the next convenient point to reach such staff, but could not remember how the service should run.) At this point the onboard crew held a discussion and requested the onboard passenger information systems be deactivated by the driver, which failed to work (it sometimes does).

By this point the train was pretty much at Merstham and the automatic announcements were left to play for this station, after which two announcements were made manually and the audio (not also visual, sadly), PIS was eventually muted. There was a further announcement, repeated twice, at the platform at Redhill. Passengers were advised to change for all destinations not served by the Three Bridges portion.

The following evening, the crew had been made aware of the diagram error, and lessons were learned so this did not happen again. Once information had been relayed correctly, no complaints were made onboard before or at Redhill on either day, but there were two conductors onboard in the middle of the train (coaches 4/5) on both days to assist, had anyone asked for clarification (and a few people did).

By the way, the Three Bridges portion is first stop Earlswood, not Gatwick Airport...

 

[Robertj21a]

Right, that's actually a bit of a disservice to what happened. As it just so happens I was able to tell exactly what happened on that service. It's by no means as clear cut as you think.

The conductor and driver diagrams for that train stated that it would divide at Redhill and run all the way through to both destinations. This was also reflected by the information that staff looked up at stations using official software. None of the crew, of which 4 were involved in the operation of that train up to and including Redhill, were familiar with running this train under the emergency timetable and therefore presumed, as of course you would if your diagram said so, that it would divide. It was noted just prior to departure from Victoria that the CIS systems were not showing a split at Redhill, but Control could not be reached by phone to properly clarify the situation until the train had reached Coulsdon South. (The station staff were asked for advice at East Croydon, which was the next convenient point to reach such staff, but could not remember how the service should run.) At this point the onboard crew held a discussion and requested the onboard passenger information systems be deactivated by the driver, which failed to work (it sometimes does).

By this point the train was pretty much at Merstham and the automatic announcements were left to play for this station, after which two announcements were made manually and the audio (not also visual, sadly), PIS was eventually muted. There was a further announcement, repeated twice, at the platform at Redhill. Passengers were advised to change for all destinations not served by the Three Bridges portion.

The following evening, the crew had been made aware of the diagram error, and lessons were learned so this did not happen again. Once information had been relayed correctly, no complaints were made onboard before or at Redhill on either day, but there were two conductors onboard in the middle of the train (coaches 4/5) on both days to assist, had anyone asked for clarification (and a few people did).

By the way, the Three Bridges portion is first stop Earlswood, not Gatwick Airport...

Which bit were you on ?

 

[XDM]

Oh so disabled customer opinions don't count?

I & two other posters have counted over 200 posts from you on this issue. Some agree with you & all sympathise. Some,me included & a family member,have been in your shoes,but don't keep saying the same thing. We want to learn from postings, not have your message continually driven down our throats. You have chased out two friends from coming to the site. They find you dominate it with your repetition. Say something new & interesting & people will come back & hear you out. But best of luck to you.

 

[Haig paxton]

Oh so disabled customer opinions don't count?

I see the Tory parliamentarian is on crutches. That is a disability, temporary or otherwise.

 

[tsr]

Which bit were you on ?

Well, there was actually only one bit...

 

[infobleep]

I thought passengers for stations beyond the West London Line had to use the Overground and weren't allowed to use the Underground or does that only apply to stations other than Watford Junction and Milton Keynes.

The board is telling passengers to travel via Victoira and Euston. I'm not heading that way myself so won't be finding out.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[Fincra5]

He said ASLEF members.

Here's one driver on £70k (obviously this includes a lot of overtime).

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2636850&postcount=9

Likely to be working for an IC TOC or a FOC...

 

[AlterEgo]

Likely to be working for an IC TOC or a FOC...

Likely not, if you look at other threads he's contributed to.

(But yes, that kind of salary would be an IC TOC, caning the overtime and not having a social life).

 

[Flamingo]

I & two other posters have counted over 200 posts from you on this issue. Some agree with you & all sympathise. Some,me included & a family member,have been in your shoes,but don't keep saying the same thing. We want to learn from postings, not have your message continually driven down our throats. You have chased out two friends from coming to the site. They find you dominate it with your repetition. Say something new & interesting & people will come back & hear you out. But best of luck to you.

He is raising a valid point, one which is a difficult question for Southern to answer. Therefore you do not want it asked, one presumes.

Maybe if he had been given an answer that satisfies him he will not be discriminated against, he would not have to keep asking it.

 

[infobleep]

So if stations were to be staffed less, would disabled people be able to travel even less. The above states there is assisted travel help but only when the station is staffed.

I don't know if the changes they wished to do would affect staff being able to help passengers to and from trains.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[Deepgreen]

Right, that's actually a bit of a disservice to what happened. As it just so happens I was able to tell exactly what happened on that service. It's by no means as clear cut as you think.

The conductor and driver diagrams for that train stated that it would divide at Redhill and run all the way through to both destinations. This was also reflected by the information that staff looked up at stations using official software. None of the crew, of which 4 were involved in the operation of that train up to and including Redhill, were familiar with running this train under the emergency timetable and therefore presumed, as of course you would if your diagram said so, that it would divide. It was noted just prior to departure from Victoria that the CIS systems were not showing a split at Redhill, but Control could not be reached by phone to properly clarify the situation until the train had reached Coulsdon South. (The station staff were asked for advice at East Croydon, which was the next convenient point to reach such staff, but could not remember how the service should run.) At this point the onboard crew held a discussion and requested the onboard passenger information systems be deactivated by the driver, which failed to work (it sometimes does).

By this point the train was pretty much at Merstham and the automatic announcements were left to play for this station, after which two announcements were made manually and the audio (not also visual, sadly), PIS was eventually muted. There was a further announcement, repeated twice, at the platform at Redhill. Passengers were advised to change for all destinations not served by the Three Bridges portion.

The following evening, the crew had been made aware of the diagram error, and lessons were learned so this did not happen again. Once information had been relayed correctly, no complaints were made onboard before or at Redhill on either day, but there were two conductors onboard in the middle of the train (coaches 4/5) on both days to assist, had anyone asked for clarification (and a few people did).

By the way, the Three Bridges portion is first stop Earlswood, not Gatwick Airport...

I appreciate your detailed response; thanks. BTW, I meant Gatwick-bound from a directional viewpoint only. I had left the train at Redhill anyway, so didn't hear those two announcements. Good to know it may not happen again.

 

[maniacmartin]

It's interesting to know the reason behind the problems Deepgreen experienced at Redhill, but I don't think this excuses GTR. The incorrect diagrams supplied to staff, inability to contact control and inability to disable/change the PIS are all down to GTR and in my opinion would have been within their control to get right

 

[Deepgreen]

It's interesting to know the reason behind the problems Deepgreen experienced at Redhill, but I don't think this excuses GTR. The incorrect diagrams supplied to staff, inability to contact control and inability to disable/change the PIS are all down to GTR and in my opinion would have been within their control to get right

I fully agree, but appreciated the explanation and didn't want to shoot the messenger. As I change at Redhill anyway, I wasn't inconvenienced, but I know others were.