Information for GTR Southern passengers during strike (no DOO discussion)

[Hophead]

Timetbale 25 (Tattenham Corner) doesn't appear to download for me though.

Same for me (in Chrome / Win10), although Internet Explorer did make the documents available. Comments about Southern Rail, booze-ups & breweries may be appropriate.....

As an additional comment: will publication of these cancellations lead to a reduction in Delay Repay claims and compo? If the company have made it known that the train will not run (and assuming I knew about it), can I claim for a delayed journey?

To answer my own question: the accompanying press release says that Delay Repay can be claimed against either the original or revised timetable

 

[ComUtoR]

Charles Horton just stated there was no rest day ban.
Reduction in services will mean that the new timetable will have better guarantees for passengers due to less crew displacement. Services cut have been chosen to ensure more peak time resilience and protect services where no alternative exists as well as road services available.

This timetable initially for 4 weeks.

 

[43074]

The new timetable has been published. It goes into effect on Monday 11th July (less than a week from now.

Timetbale 25 (Tattenham Corner) doesn't appear to download for me though.

There's no executive summary of the changes, however it looks like Redhill to Tonbridge services haven't officially been culled

There's a summary of the changes here

Changes in the revised timetable include:

• 95% of the capacity in Victoria Station in both the morning and evening peaks will be maintained, along with 86% and 84% of the morning and evening peak capacity into London Bridge;
• Southern’s West London Line between Milton Keynes and Clapham Junction suspended, with alternative transport arranged with other operators.
• Redhill is largely unaffected in the peak, but there will be no services to Victoria in the off-peak, only Thameslink and Southern Horsham services to London Bridge so passengers will need to change at East Croydon.
• Trains will shuttle between Tonbridge and Reigate because through trains to Victoria will not run, with exception of three trains from Reigate in the morning: 07.27 Reigate to London Bridge, 07.40 and 07.52 to Victoria. Passengers on the Southern Tonbridge route will have to change at Redhill.
• Gatwick Express services in the peaks are largely unaffected but there is a reduced service in the off peak.
• East Coastway has no peak service reduction in trains to London, although Rye and Ashford shuttles are removed in peak, with replacement buses being organised. Extra stops are being put into Brighton to Ashford services to cover Falmer where Seaford services are to be withdrawn.
• Between Seaford and Lewes, most services will replaced by buses other than the Seaford to Victoria services (2 in AM and 1 in PM return).
• No through-services on the Metro route to and from Beckenham Junction
  West Coastway - Brighton to Southampton services are mostly withdrawn.
• Passengers should catch Brighton to Portsmouth trains and change at Barnham onto the Victoria to Southampton trains which are still running. 07.35 to 10.14 no stopping services between Chichester and Havant so replacement buses being provided. 08.51 and 11.15 two buses each way between Havant and Chichester.
• Wimbledon services, which run only in the peak (six in the morning and three in the evening), are withdrawn but Thameslink has an alternative
  Guildford’s two direct peak services to and from Victoria (2 to Victoria in the morning and 2 back again in the evening) are withdrawn.

 

[87015]

Peckham Rye to London Bridge reduced from what should be 6tph (8 cars, full) to 1tph. Not even bothering to run the South Bermondsey terminators to London Bridge. Absolute disgrace.

 

[Deepgreen]

Having just looked at the emergency timetable for the Redhill route, there are some trains which are shown twice - e.g. the 1609 and 1649 departures from Victoria - with no explanation of why (they both used to split at Redhill and now only one does) - what are passengers to make of this latest confusing information from Southern? The timetable seems to have been cobbled together by cutting and pasting with no proper check for accuracy or comprehensibility!

 

[infobleep]

Indeed not, though they aren't running between Redhill and London.

Southern's Milton Keynes Central / Watford Junction services (and variants thereof) have been cancelled on weekdays.

In fact, to emphasise, this revised timetable is a weekdays-only edition.

So what are they planning for weekend disruption as I thought it was occur then too or is that not the case?

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[physics34]

Peckham Rye to London Bridge reduced from what should be 6tph (8 cars, full) to 1tph. Not even bothering to run the South Bermondsey terminators to London Bridge. Absolute disgrace.

i saw that and it must be a mistake.

Culling of the London Bridge to Beckenhams is harsh.

The peak time Wimbledon to London Bridge service look like they are cancelled too.

 

[infobleep]

Charles Horton just stated there was no rest day ban.
Reduction in services will mean that the new timetable will have better guarantees for passengers due to less crew displacement. Services cut have been chosen to ensure more peak time resilience and protect services where no alternative exists as well as road services available.

This timetable initially for 4 weeks.

There is an alternative to some of the services but they are not run by Southern so if you have an advanced ticket, that says Southern only, could you use it on London Overground or London Underground?

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[ComUtoR]

Nothing was mentioned other than how good this will be for passengers and how it has been designed to improve resilience in the peak and to provide staff availability so that they are more able to react.

As already posted, delay repay can be claimed based on the previous timetable.

Nothing was mentioned about tickets and other service other than certain services were cut knowing that passengers will still have an alternative.

Probably best to ask in the fares form about ticket validity

 

[tsr]

So what are they planning for weekend disruption as I thought it was occur then too or is that not the case?

It is still disrupted at weekends, though personally speaking I have found that short formations are causing more problems for passenger flow during weekend services than outright cancellations. They are probably relying on routes like the West London Line being covered by drivers and conductors who, during the week, would otherwise be more thinly spread working peak-time services via Oxted and other routes with peak extras. Rostering for some depots, per trains run, is skewed to allow good cover on Saturdays, partly to prevent problems due to cancellations in the London area during weekend engineering works and sports events. Coastal trains do end up taking hits and I'm not sure what will be done about that. Sundays are much more variable at the moment, but there are still even fewer services away from BML as per the normal timetable anyway, discounting staff sitting spare due to any engineering works.

 

[JonathanH]

Having just looked at the emergency timetable for the Redhill route, there are some trains which are shown twice - e.g. the 1609 and 1649 departures from Victoria - with no explanation of why (they both used to split at Redhill and now only one does) - what are passengers to make of this latest confusing information from Southern? The timetable seems to have been cobbled together by cutting and pasting with no proper check for accuracy or comprehensibility!

It is just the easiest way of showing trains that split in the software they used to lay out the timetable. I don't think it causes an issue - see the timetable from London to Haywards Heath as the one with the most number of these.

 

[Deepgreen]

It is just the easiest way of showing trains that split in the software they used to lay out the timetable. I don't think it causes an issue - see the timetable from London to Haywards Heath as the one with the most number of these.

Indeed, we both understand that (although the 1649 no longer splits anyway), but the average passenger is likely to be confused by this software issue rather than having a clearly laid-out format. Elsewhere, trains are shown with a 'lead-on' arrow that doesn't lead to anything in following columns. It's just another example of Southern not taking the trouble to make its information helpful to the average passenger.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I will look at the revised timetable this evening especially now I've read the off-peak Vic - Gatwicks will be cut.

Of interest, what will the signalmen at Newhaven Town/Harbour be doing between the peaks if services are to be replaced by buses? Are the Seaford's cut at weekends too?

 

[infobleep]

It is still disrupted at weekends, though personally speaking I have found that short formations are causing more problems for passenger flow during weekend services than outright cancellations. They are probably relying on routes like the West London Line being covered by drivers and conductors who, during the week, would otherwise be more thinly spread working peak-time services via Oxted and other routes with peak extras. Rostering for some depots, per trains run, is skewed to allow good cover on Saturdays, partly to prevent problems due to cancellations in the London area during weekend engineering works and sports events. Coastal trains do end up taking hits and I'm not sure what will be done about that. Sundays are much more variable at the moment, but there are still even fewer services away from BML as per the normal timetable anyway, discounting staff sitting spare due to any engineering works.

If they can't manage at weekends currently, even taking into account the short formations, why don't they revise that too.

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--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Nothing was mentioned other than how good this will be for passengers and how it has been designed to improve resilience in the peak and to provide staff availability so that they are more able to react.

As already posted, delay repay can be claimed based on the previous timetable.

Nothing was mentioned about tickets and other service other than certain services were cut knowing that passengers will still have an alternative.

Probably best to ask in the fares form about ticket validity

To be fair, I don't need to travel to Milton Keynes at the moment. I was just asking because I'm interested in it all.

Travel wise it will add about 10-20 minutes on if travelling Clapham Junction to Watford Junction. The overground trains aren't as nice to travel on than the Southern coaches.

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[Deepgreen]

I also note that the Tonbridge - Redhill shuttle has a train arriving at Redhill at 0826 and another one in the reverse direction also at 0826. Unless these are the same single train (if so, how will it reverse this quickly!?), this is going to use two platforms at a time when other trains are likely to need them.

 

[bicbasher]

With the majority of Peckham Rye services cut, it looks like Southern will be shifting their passengers onto already crowded SLL Overground services.

 

[FordFocus]

Peckham Rye is DOO so I guess because of the driver shortage at Southern they are cutting the service on that line to cover for other lines such as the Brighton mainline.

 

[danielson00]

I find this frequency quite appalling for stations in Zone 2!

To London Bridge:
from North Dulwich: 6:53, 7:27, 8:27, 9:28
from East Dulwich: 6:55, 7:30, 8:30, 9:30
from Peckham Rye: 6:58, 7:33, 8:33, 9:34

Coming back home from London Bridge:

16:10, 16:40, 17:11, 18:08, 18:51.

One train an hour!

 

[bengley]

Peckham Rye is DOO so I guess because of the driver shortage at Southern they are cutting the service on that line to cover for other lines such as the Brighton mainline.

Metro area drivers don't sign south of Purley on the BML.

 

[hwl]

I find this frequency quote appalling for stations in Zone 2!

To London Bridge:
from North Dulwich: 6:53, 7:27, 8:27, 9:28
from East Dulwich: 6:55, 7:30, 8:30, 9:30
from Peckham Rye: 6:58, 7:33, 8:33, 9:34

Coming back home from London Bridge:

16:10, 16:40, 17:11, 18:08, 18:51.

One train an hour!

Time to get the MPs and London Assembly members on the case with 5tph (already reduced due to LBG works from 8/10tph) to 1tph which silly given the multiple thousands of peak time users. The West Norwood - Tulse Hill link has also been cut which is used by lots of school kids on longer journeys. Overground and buses will be carnage on Monday morning!

 

[LBSCR Times]

Metro area drivers don't sign south of Purley on the BML.

But Three Bridges and Horsham drivers cover Metro work.....

 

[bengley]

But Three Bridges and Horsham drivers cover Metro work.....

True, but I reckon the number of those drivers covering services via Peckham Rye is insignificant compared to the number of cancellations

 

[LBSCR Times]

True, but I reckon the number of those drivers covering services via Peckham Rye is insignificant compared to the number of cancellations

Cascades down....
Metro depots cover Three Bridges and Horsham work in the metro area, to allow Horsham and Three Bridges drivers, probably along with Redhill, to cover Barnham or Brighton work?
As long as it doesn't go on too long, and these depots lose their Metro route knowledge!

 

[tony6499]

Interesting they say for Southampton to Brighton change at Barnham, they don't say this entails a FIFTY minute wait though

 

[JonathanH]

Interesting they say for Southampton to Brighton change at Barnham, they don't say this entails a FIFTY minute wait though

Strange one isn't it - if they had kept on the Southampton to Brighton service, connectivity from Portsmouth wouldn't have been much affected because of the SWT services. As it is, none of the trains from Southampton (GWR, SWT, Southern) offer a good connection into the Portsmouth to Brighton service and that is the only train which goes between Barnham and Angmering.

 

[tsr]

Metro area drivers don't sign south of Purley on the BML.

Really? I'll have to tell that to those of them who sign Reigate, Horsham and Brighton...

It's very link-specific but there are plenty of people in Metro depots who cover routes right down to the South Coast. This is not just top-link stuff either.

But Three Bridges and Horsham drivers cover Metro work.....

Yes... very specific Metro work! IIRC, Three Bridges mostly does Caterhams, and Horsham mostly does stuff via Dorking or "rounders" between London Bridge and Victoria. Cascading this sort of stuff could be a nightmare. Looks like there are fairly big problems here with Selhurst work - Wimbledon, Guildford, West Croydon all cut...

In other words, I think FordFocus has hit the nail on the head in a roundabout way.

 

[Dent]

Things are going from bad to worse for Southern - their entire existence is now being chalked up as a terrorist act.




http://newsthump.com/2016/07/05/southern-rail-a-terrorist-act-against-uk/

NewsThump is a spoof website.

 

[infobleep]

Really? I'll have to tell that to those of them who sign Reigate, Horsham and Brighton...

It's very link-specific but there are plenty of people in Metro depots who cover routes right down to the South Coast. This is not just top-link stuff either.



Yes... very specific Metro work! IIRC, Three Bridges mostly does Caterhams, and Horsham mostly does stuff via Dorking or "rounders" between London Bridge and Victoria. Cascading this sort of stuff could be a nightmare. Looks like there are fairly big problems here with Selhurst work - Wimbledon, Guildford, West Croydon all cut...

In other words, I think FordFocus has hit the nail on the head in a roundabout way.

How often do drivers need to drive along a route to keep their route knowledge up and similar for guards, abet not driving.

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[Bishopstone]

Just noticed the last bus from Lewes to Seaford is an hour earlier than the current last train, around midnight. In turn, this means you need to be away from Victoria well before 10pm to make the connection.

Can't see the justification for this.

 

[MrB]

How often do drivers need to drive along a route to keep their route knowledge up and similar for guards, abet not driving.

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IIRC it's every six months for drivers. Not sure about guards.