Information for an International Tourist

[AmtrakMan]

Greetings,

I am considering a holiday in the North of England soon. I think that I will be using the Transpennine Express (185 rolling stock) quite frequently based on the destinations I would like to visit.

I was thinking of arriving and departing from Manchester Airport (On TPE)
And at some point visting Manchester, Liverpool, Blackpool, Leeds and York.....

My BIG concern is the crowds in standard class TPE. Since I am on holiday, I was planning to attempt to travel at the least crowded hour, no need to travel at peak times.

My BIG question is, what time is the LEAST crowded time to buy an advance ticket on TPE? I was thinking of traveling around 11:00 between each city?

I do not want to purchase 1st class advance because I have young kids with me, and I don't mind buying from the trolley.

Thanks

AmtrakMan

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Don't go to Blackpool! Quite possibly the worst coastal resort in the UK, but Lytham or St Annes (both with railway stations) are quite nice and not too far from Blackpool by rail.

 

[ainsworth74]

Travelling at those sorts of times you should definitely avoid the worst of the crowding. The only exceptions are if there are special events on (York races for example), or if you're travelling on a Sunday (and maybe even a Saturday what with people wanting to travel for shopping reasons). Between Leeds and Manchester is busy no matter what time of the day but it tends to only be full and standing during the peak.

 

[northwichcat]

Don't go to Blackpool! Quite possibly the worst coastal resort in the UK, but Lytham or St Annes (both with railway stations) are quite nice and not too far from Blackpool by rail.

Depends what age the original poster is. I doubt many people under 35 will prefer Lytham or St Annes to Blackpool.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I reckon Lytham / St Annes are more traditional resorts, Blackpool is very tacky and run-down. Having said that, with kids Blackpool is probably better for that front only.

EDIT - Or try Southport, great place, Blackpool's attractive sister in a way.

 

[northwichcat]

My BIG concern is the crowds in standard class TPE. Since I am on holiday, I was planning to attempt to travel at the least crowded hour, no need to travel at peak times.

My BIG question is, what time is the LEAST crowded time to buy an advance ticket on TPE? I was thinking of traveling around 11:00 between each city?

Bear in mind that on Saturdays and during UK school holidays TPE services can be busy all day. School holidays can vary between districts and schools but this article gives you an idea of when schools are usually on holiday: http://www.cheshireeast.gov.uk/coun...july_2011/standardised_school_term_dates.aspx
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Blackpool is very tacky and run-down.

A lot of the main attractions in Blackpool have been sold by Blackpool council in the last year and been done up by the new owners. I've not seen what the results are though, except on regional news.

Some of the B&Bs look a bit run down. However, you can use Google streetview to aid your choice - if it looks like it has rotting wooden window frames then it's probably run down inside as well.

 

[Ze Random One]

Transpennine express offers seat reservations on almost all of their trains. If I remember correctly, seat reservations are free on Transpennine Express, and you can obtain them at the ticket office up to the night before travel -- so this may provide you with an alternative to worrying!

 

[AmtrakMan]

Thanks for all of the quick responses.

Yes, I have already been warned multiple times about Blackpool, and I understand 100%. But for some odd reason, I want to see and experience the place. It seems to be one of the "oldest" classic seaside resorts in the world. Run down is exactly what I am after in this case. But only if time permits, and only for a quick day.

As for the type of amusement park my kids tend to fancy.... I think they are more the Legoland - Chessington age group --- 4-7 years old.....

Was also considering Alton Towers, but thats going a bit too far south for this holiday idea...

I have saved that school term calendar for 2011-2012. Unfortunately, it looks like we have the same days here in the USA, but there is some overlap.

-------------------------------

Another idea I had, was to go straight to Birmingham, stay in Birmingham... and do some daily rail trips from the city centre.... Like Warwick Castle, Black Country Living Museum, Stratford Upon Avon.... Etc...

I am trying VERY HARD to avoid London and the SouthEast as you can see. We have been there many times already. But since I have close family in Walthamstow - North London, never hurts to pay a visit again.
-------------------------------
One important side trip for us is to see some Lower division Football matches. It looks like Bolton and Stockport are the most Rail Accessible Grounds, that are good candidates.... My first priority is to be able to easily get Match tickets, so the Premiership is out of the question..... So is London.....

 

[MCR247]

Trying to avoid the family are we

This may be of some use, depending on how much travelling you are doing

 

[AmtrakMan]

Seat Reservations will definately help... But Luggage also does not mix well with a crowded train. We have successfully done Luggage on the London Undergound and Luggage on a crowded Euro-City Train with standing room only.... But I just want to try NOT to make those mistakes again.

If I can take any train at any time off peak, while on holiday, why not pick the least crowded one + seat reservations.

Thanks.

Transpennine express offers seat reservations on almost all of their trains. If I remember correctly, seat reservations are free on Transpennine Express, and you can obtain them at the ticket office up to the night before travel -- so this may provide you with an alternative to worrying!

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
HaHaHa... No really. Have been to SouthEast SO MANY TIMES, and been to North of England only once.... Never been to Scotland either.

Also, I like how the trains run through Manchester... makes things so much easier for a rail holiday. I don't like how the trains can't run through London, and you have switch to the undergound.

I think if you are foreign tourist like me.... Its simply best to do a seperate London and Southeast, OR a NON London and Southeast holiday.

In this case, I want to see the North and avoid the London congestion and high prices.

Trying to avoid the family are we

This may be of some use, depending on how much travelling you are doing

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
MCR247,

Yes I am familiar with the BritRail Pass, but I have learned on this fantastic forum that ADVANCE SINGLES are much cheaper than Passes for a few journeys.

 

[MCR247]

I'd recommend a visit to Scotland, if you had time I'd spend a few days there, but you probably won't have time so I'd reccommend at the least to try and do the WHL (Glasgow - Mallaig via Fort William) Maybe even the Jacobite steam train

 

[AmtrakMan]

MattE2010,

Thanks for the Lytham / St Annes or Southport tip, I have never even heard of these places. I am learning so much on here.

Yet, I think we are learning to more of an "attractions" oriented holiday this time around.

I am seriously considering skipping Blackpool, because of so many warnings from so many people.

But I find it interesting because it is from a "lost age". There are very few "OLD" amusement parks left in the world today. Tivoli in Copenhagen is another example of this. Blackpool would be like a great big museum to me, especially the old trams, the old blackpool tower, the old piers, the old rides.... etc...
Then there are always the brand new attractions to see as well.

I understand that I can arrive in Blackpool and say, what a dirty tacky smelly place.... But at least I can say I have been there. The history of the place really interests me....

 

[MCR247]

A lot of the old trams have got now, maybe 2 years too late

 

[yorkie]

I don't like how the trains can't run through London, and you have switch to the undergound.

Without wishing for the thread to go off topic, trains do run through London on the Thameslink route (though generally not at weekends at the moment due to work to increase capacity).

 

[telstarbox]

One important side trip for us is to see some Lower division Football matches. It looks like Bolton and Stockport are the most Rail Accessible Grounds, that are good candidates.... My first priority is to be able to easily get Match tickets, so the Premiership is out of the question..... So is London.....

Bolton are in the Premier League!
Also the Premier League isn't necessarily more expensive for tickets - if you're in the north west try Blackburn, Wigan or Stoke.

 

[AmtrakMan]

Blackburn, Wigan and Stoke City have been promoted to the Premier League?? Well, thats what I get for not keeping up.....

So what about a club with a big GROUND that is not longer in the premiership, like Sheffield Wednesday or Leeds United? That must be really really easy, right?

I only mentioned Bolton because it has a brand new football ground (I think).

But in London, I have to compete with all the other foreigners who "think" they love English football too. And that means even the lower divisions are hard to score match tickets..... in my opinion.

Now I have gone way too far off topic.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Blackburn, Wigan and Stoke City have been promoted to the Premier League?? Well, thats what I get for not keeping up.....

Blackburn have been there since 2001, I should know, I live 2 miles from the ground :P

 

[cuccir]

Frankly I'd expect you'd be able get tickets on the day for all of Bolton, Blackburn and Wigan, even for a major game. If you are interested in a different experience, you could try somewhere like York, whose team is in the Conference (level five, the lowest level league with pro teams) and who have the sort of fantastic old fashioned stadium which is becoming extinct. Of course, the quality won't be as high!

 

[AmtrakMan]

MCR247,

I see the Glasgow - Mallaig line.... Looks very nice.

But how does this compare to the Inverness - Kyle of Lochash line?

And isn't all the rolling stock on those rural routes old and slow DMUs (not quite pacers)?
Is the scenery so good that you don't mind the slow traction?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

MCR247,

I see the Glasgow - Mallaig line.... Looks very nice.

But how does this compare to the Inverness - Kyle of Lochash line?

And isn't all the rolling stock on those rural routes old and slow DMUs?
Is the scenery so good that you don't mind the slow traction?

West Highlands is slightly better, but both are breathtakingly stunning. They are run by Class 156 units on the West Highland line or 158s out to Kyle, but the stock doesn't matter, the views compensate for it an infinite number of times!

Sleeper trains also run to Fort William on the West Highland line from Preston (near Blackpool) and London. Steam trains run in summer between Fort William and Mallaig.

 

[AmtrakMan]

Wait a minute.... Does the Caledonian sleeper call at Preston? I thought you only boarded the train at the beginning and end on the Caledonian. Or is this a different sleeper that begins in Preston?

I definately need to do some more reading on this forum.

Sleeper trains also run to Fort William on the West Highland line from Preston (near Blackpool)

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Wait a minute.... Does the Caledonian sleeper call at Preston? You can board a sleeper in Preston? I thought you only boarded the train at the beginning and end. Or is this a different sleeper that begins in Preston?

I definately need to do some more reading on this forum.

To the best of my knowledge you are free to board, check out the timetable here:

http://www.scotrail.co.uk/sites/default/files/documents/sleeperttdec11.pdf

Might be a bit of a wait into the night for you though, especially with young children.

EDIT - 0052 departure, probably not the best, but there are roughly 2-3tph during the day from Preston-Glasgow (some TPE 185s, the others Virgin 221s or 390s). Unfortunately beyond Glasgow the trains up to Fort William etc aren't very regular, 4-5tpd I think.

 

[AmtrakMan]

That is no problem for us... Check the Amtrak Timetables for the state of ohio (my home). 2 daily intercity trains only - one calls at 3:30, the other at 5:50, in the other direction @ 23:00.... that one going east is not as bad as the others.

I see the timetable and also notice that I can board the Sleeper at Crewe as well as Preston, maybe Crewe is a better place to board FROM Manchester, and at a slightly earlier time.

Might be a bit of a wait into the night for you though, especially with young children.

 

[stut]

Also, if you head later from Fort William to Mallaig, it's pretty easy to get a ferry/bus combo over to Kyle of Lochalsh. You do have to change buses at Broadford, but the journey from Armadale to Kyle is under an hour.

 

[scotsman]

AmtrakMan I suggest the West Highland Line over the Kyle Line.

This is for a number of reasons:

1. Glasgow is much more accessible, and has a shorter journey time to reach, than Inverness
2. The rolling stock is Class 156 DMU and Class 67 hauling Mark 2 and 3 stock on the sleeper (which accepts unreserved passengers in the seated portion between Fort William and Edinburgh). Class 158s tend to feel a bit more "isolated" when onboard and have smaller windows
3. The scenery is highly varied. Beginning with inner-city decay, to a run along the Clyde, to the summits and lochs, then on to the huge, isolated expanse of Rannoch Moor.

The run to Mallaig is nice, but there isn't a huge amount to do - an afternoon should be enough. The journey features some absolutely stunning views of the Small Isles and the famous Glenfinnan viaduct (of Harry Potter fame).

If you want to try The Jacobite, then be warned that it is very popular and sells out well in advance fairly regularly. Furthermore, the fare is around 2-3 times that of the ScotRail service and West Coast's carriages aren't the best. If you want to book in advance, go to www.westcoastrailways.co.uk

 

[eMeS]

Don't go to Blackpool! Quite possibly the worst coastal resort in the UK, but Lytham or St Annes (both with railway stations) are quite nice and not too far from Blackpool by rail.

This is VERY unfair on Blackpool which has recently invested millions in its promenade, and this link about the Comedy Carpet will give some idea why it's now well worth a visit. The tower's been upgraded as well and now has a glass floor.

(OK it's a bit tacky away from the promenade)

 

[harz99]

A lot of the old trams have got now, maybe 2 years too late

No Blackpool trams now until Easter 2012, and then they will normally be modern light rail type rather than the old traditional type.

Regarding Tpex 185s; avoid the Manchester to Glasgow/Edinburgh services unless you have seat reservations, as they get rammed more often than not.

 

[AmtrakMan]

Now you are speaking my language! Rolling stock DOES make a big difference to me. Not to say the scenery isn't important though. But I would definately prefer a loco driven Class 67 with Mark 2 and Mark 3 stock over any DMU. I love the mark 3 coaches! Have seen photos of the via rail versions of them in Canada (from the nightstar).

And I see your point about the 156s being a little better than the 158s... But the 142!!! That should not be called a train.

EMUs:

EMUs don't bother me that much, at least they are quiet.

So points well taken....

2. The rolling stock is Class 156 DMU and Class 67 hauling Mark 2 and 3 stock on the sleeper (which accepts unreserved passengers in the seated portion between Fort William and Edinburgh). Class 158s tend to feel a bit more "isolated" when onboard and have smaller windows

 

[Yew]

Sheffield wednesday isn't bad, it's not the newest or the largest stadium, however it boasts the largest single tiered stand, and had the worlds first full length cantilever stand. And so far they are having a good season

If it helps, when I went to Blackpool a while back, I had a good time.

 

[Ivo]

Unfortunately I have to vote against Blackpool. But half of the regulars probably knew that already.

I see that you wish to travel to the northern reaches of England, and have expressed a wish to avoid the south-east, but have you ever been to or considered the south-west of England? Plenty to see this way, with Cornwall's fishing towns and villages, the aquarium in Plymouth, the English Riveira around Torquay, the Jurassic Coast, and out a bit further towards Bournemouth on the south coast and Bath and Bristol on the Severn Estuary. Just make sure you avoid Weston-super-Mare; effectively the south's equivalent of Blackpool - only smaller and a lot less crowded during peak tourism periods.