Information about Halifax in the 70s

[Ploughman]

Some photos and info here:-
http://www.lostrailwayswestyorkshire.co.uk/

 

[crosscity]

[

Excellent views - thank you for posting them..

The use of platform 4 by the Manchester dmu is interesting.
Normally, platforms 1 or 2 were used for Manchester trains and 3 for Leeds services. But for a period, platform 4 was used for Manchester trains, but only at weekends. During the week, platforms 1 or 2 were used as usual.
This was just before the rationalisation, and it was to help decide which of the island platforms, 1 & 2 or 3 & 4 to keep. In the end, the 1 & 2 island was kept, and the other sold. I thought that was a mistake, because all the main buildings were on the 3 & 4 island, and, if they could have been renovated, then they would have made a very smart station. Also, this would have allowed the bridge over to the 1 & 2 Island to be demolished, along with a saving on its maintenance.

The permanent use of platform 4 for westbound traffic meant a conflict with eastbound trains at both ends, so a redesign of the track layout to enable platform 3 to be used westbound and 4 eastbound would have been necessary, and I suppose at the time they simply were wanting to save money rather than spend any more, so it didn't happen.

If you look at my 1968 photos, the dmu on platform 4 is a train to Leeds and the train to Manchester left from platform 1. I don't know why that was or the oddity you describe of running Manchester trains from platform 4. All very strange. Platforms 1 and 2 had biderectional signalling. Did 3 & 4? From my visits to Halifax signalbox, I remember a miniature panel with little lever shaped switches for the colour-light signals and electric point motors, unlike Milner Royd, which of course, was mostly semaphores connected by cables, and points connected by rods.

 

[Welshman]

[
If you look at my 1968 photos, the dmu on platform 4 is a train to Leeds

Are you sure?
I can't enlarge the picture sufficiently to be able to read the headcode or destination panel, but from what look like figures in the cab and the lack of tail-lamp, suggest the train is heading towards the camera , ie in the Manchester direction.
I do recall trains to Manchester using platform 4 for a time as I describe, for I used them personally. And although the remaining platforms 1 & 2 were signalled for bi-directional working after the rationalisation, I don't think platform 4 was before.

Platform 3 was the Leeds platform, with the exception in the early 1960s of the 0948 which started at Halifax and arrived from Normanton at 0830. This was put into platform 5, to allow the 0917 to Leeds and the 0925 to Bradford to overtake. Again, I personally used the 0948 from platform 5, and recall the times when the station staff forgot about it and the guard had to go seeking someone to despatch his train{!}. I also recall the difficulty the driver sometimes had in getting up the bank round the back of Halifax East box to rejoin the main line on a winter's morning when the rail was slippery, and nothing had used that platform in the last 24 hours!

 

[crosscity]

Are you sure?
I can't enlarge the picture sufficiently to be able to read the headcode or destination panel, but from what look like figures in the cab and the lack of tail-lamp, suggest the train is heading towards the camera , ie in the Manchester direction.
I do recall trains to Manchester using platform 4 for a time as I describe, for I used them personally. And although the remaining platforms 1 & 2 were signalled for bi-directional working after the rationalisation, I don't think platform 4 was before.

Platform 3 was the Leeds platform, with the exception in the early 1960s of the 0948 which started at Halifax and arrived from Normanton at 0830. This was put into platform 5, to allow the 0917 to Leeds and the 0925 to Bradford to overtake. Again, I personally used the 0948 from platform 5, and recall the times when the station staff forgot about it and the guard had to go seeking someone to despatch his train{!}. I also recall the difficulty the driver sometimes had in getting up the bank round the back of Halifax East box to rejoin the main line on a winter's morning when the rail was slippery, and nothing had used that platform in the last 24 hours!

Wow. A bit of controversy! As I was 12 at the time and the photo is from 50 years ago, my memory isn't good enough to remember exactly what happened, and I hadn't started recording things in notebooks yet. I thought the five photos I took in 1968 were taken on the same day, but it may not have been the case. The first photo has vans on Platform 4. However the shunter is clearly operating as the driver and shunter is in the cab, so they may have moved the vans away from platform 4 in anticipation of the dmu. Or maybe not, and I went to the same spot another time.

Looking at the picture of Halifax West Signalbox, was it that the the four tracks to the left of the box served Platforms 1 to 4? Could the dmu with the green coach be in the position it is after coming from platform 4? If so the two trains could be one and the same.

 

[Welshman]

Wow. A bit of controversy! As I was 12 at the time and the photo is from 50 years ago, my memory isn't good enough to remember exactly what happened, and I hadn't started recording things in notebooks yet. I thought the five photos I took in 1968 were taken on the same day, but it may not have been the case. The first photo has vans on Platform 4. However the shunter is clearly operating as the driver and shunter is in the cab, so they may have moved the vans away from platform 4 in anticipation of the dmu. Or maybe not, and I went to the same spot another time.

Looking at the picture of Halifax West Signalbox, was it that the the four tracks to the left of the box served Platforms 1 to 4? Could the dmu with the green coach be in the position it is after coming from platform 4? If so the two trains could be one and the same.

As I said in #27, the use of platform 4 for Manchester trains was restricted to weekends only - it was indeed used for loading/unloading vans during the week, but there was no such traffic at weekends. So, with respect, I suggest your photograph was taken on another day. I distinctly remember catching Manchester-bound trains from platform 4 during this period on a Saturday - all the services used this platform, not just one.

The three tracks to the left of Halifax West box served platforms 1,2 & 3. Platform 4 was to the right of the box - you can see its starter at danger. The departing dmu had come from 1 or 2.

 

[crosscity]

As I said in #27, the use of platform 4 for Manchester trains was restricted to weekends only - it was indeed used for loading/unloading vans during the week, but there was no such traffic at weekends. So, with respect, I suggest your photograph was taken on another day. I distinctly remember catching Manchester-bound trains from platform 4 during this period on a Saturday - all the services used this platform, not just one.

The three tracks to the left of Halifax West box served platforms 1,2 & 3. Platform 4 was to the right of the box - you can see its starter at danger. The departing dmu had come from 1 or 2.

With your forensic analysis and my pictures as evidence, you have convinced me that the photos were taken on at least two different days. The first one was a weekday with platform 4 occupied by the parcels vans, and the dmu with the green centre coach leaving platform 1, and the second one on a Saturday with the dmu on platform 4. I'm sure the photos weren't taken on three different days so I suspect I mixed up the sequence of the slides when I indexed them originally. I might have a look at the slides to see if there is anything on the film that gives away the actual sequence they were taken. I will certainly be changing the captions.

I never thought I would be discussing my first pictures 50 years later with ex-patriot Halifaxonians dotted around the world! Thanks, you have made my week.

 

[Welshman]

With your forensic analysis and my pictures as evidence, you have convinced me that the photos were taken on at least two different days. The first one was a weekday with platform 4 occupied by the parcels vans, and the dmu with the green centre coach leaving platform 1, and the second one on a Saturday with the dmu on platform 4. I'm sure the photos weren't taken on three different days so I suspect I mixed up the sequence of the slides when I indexed them originally. I might have a look at the slides to see if there is anything on the film that gives away the actual sequence they were taken. I will certainly be changing the captions.

I never thought I would be discussing my first pictures 50 years later with ex-patriot Halifaxonians dotted around the world! Thanks, you have made my week.

Likewise, thank you for your photographs, and for bringing back happy memories.

 

[Greetlander]

Thanks for your photos, particularly giving new views previously unseen. And thanks to everyone for input.

 

[whitrope]

My Grandparents lived in the town and we would always visit in the school holidays. I remember one Summer (1969 or 1970) we caught a Halifax to Southampton direct service. It arrived 31 hauled from the Bradford direction and then set off via Greetland Bank and beyond towards Sheffield. on another occasion we caught a direct train from Halifax to Filey and I seem to remember it running via Hull!

 

[cadder toad]

As promised, I have uploaded some of my photos to Flickr.

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmfxE8vm

Fascinating pix! What was train 1M20? Its formed of ten dmu cars in one pic and 8 in another. Some great photos of mineral wagons for weathering ideas. Two of the freight trains have containers loaded on high sided open goods wagons which is not often seen in photos. I wonder where they were going.

 

[crosscity]

Fascinating pix! What was train 1M20? Its formed of ten dmu cars in one pic and 8 in another. Some great photos of mineral wagons for weathering ideas. Two of the freight trains have containers loaded on high sided open goods wagons which is not often seen in photos. I wonder where they were going.

Readers can see the two pictures here https://www.flickr.com/photos/rayh/shares/s11D4t

I don't know what 1M20 was 2F51 (or 2E51) was. I have a copy of the relevant Mandatory Working Timetable (WTT) for the area and time and none of these appear anywhere. 14Jul73 was the second Saturday in July, which was the beginning of the 'Wakes' week holiday in Halifax and the Calder Valley. I had obtained information from Halifax station a few days before about the times and destinations of trains on the day. Not only was there the normal Summer Saturday timetable, but additional trains too - some being extensions of trains from Leeds or Bradford. The normal Cleethorpes would have been 1D21 the 09:00 from Leeds, so 8:07 from Halifax would have made sense.

However there was already an 8:07 from Halifax. This is in the WTT as 2E92 the 6:58 Manchester Victoria-Leeds, which on summer Saturdays changed en-route at Hebden Bridge into the 1E07 to Bridlington. It also waited at Sowerby Bridge for 11 minutes. A supplement to the WTT would have been published detailing all the changed workings, but I have never found a copy.

On the day I was chasing the trains on my bicycle. I took pictures at Dryclough Jct, Copley and Greetland and timed my itinerary around the loco-hauled trains. The two pictures are not clear enough to determine the exact lengths of the trains, but I am convinced they are the same train, but not necessarily the Cleethorpes. At the time the Calder Valley BRCW units were always formed of three coaches (it was a few years later when the middle coaches were removed). The first picture is of the train running from Halifax towards Dryclough Jct. The second is at Copley and the train is running in the opposite direction having gone up to Sowerby Bridge or Hebden Bridge. In the first picture on the face of it the last unit looks like a two-car, but the fore-shortened length is too long. On the second picture the last car is obscured by the bush in the fore-ground. The train consisted of four units, the outer ones being three-car Calder Valley, and the inner ones 2-car Metro-Cammells, giving 10 coaches in all. I lost my spotting notes from the time so I can offer no further evidence.

I presume you are modelling a layout based on the area or the 70's, and am glad my slides are helping you out.