Independent coach services from London 1990s

[deltic]

Does anyone recall the coach operators that used to run overnight coach services from around London Russell Square/Southampton Row in the 1980s/1990s to I think the north east and Scotland. They had a check in office on Southampton Row near the Bedford Hotel.

Any idea when the services stopped running?

 

[gordonthemoron]

Tyne & Wear PTE used to run coaches from Newcastle to London, but I though that was in the 80s

 

[transmanche]

Tyne & Wear PTE used to run coaches from Newcastle to London, but I though that was in the 80s

Yep using the Armstrong Galley name and branded as the 'Non-Stop Clipper' - stayed with Busways until about 1993/1994, when the service ceased. But I thought they started from Victoria - close to (but not in) the Coach Station.

There was a third company running London-Newcastle services: Blueline, which was operated by Barton Transport. I think they started from King's Cross.

 

[quarella]

Many operators set up services to London post deregulation, some lasting longer than others. Those who complain about Victoria never had to use Kings Cross or Gloucester Road Coach stations. (Coach Parks with some large potholes.) Others used roadside pick ups and from where I grew up finding the Bakers Avon London Flyer in one of the coach bays on Park Lane could be a challenge.
For a short period (80 - 82) there was British Coachways. Not a coach firm in its own right but a collection of operators working under the banner and offering through ticketing. From Scotland of course it was the start of Stagecoach, however the operators that raised the standard with video and at seat service were Cotters of Glasgow and the Trathens Rapide service from Plymouth and the South West.

 

[Welshman]

At about the time of "British Coachways" I remember the "City-Flyer" services from Blackpool to Dover, run by a consortium of Burnley & Pendle, Leicester Corporation Transport and Maidstone & District. I think the brains behind the marathon route was Geoffrey Hilditch, who'd been GM at Halifax and then at Leicester.

I seem to remember it ran three times per day, but with one "short-working" which terminated at Maidstone!

Starting at Blackpool, it was non-stop to Blackburn [I don't think it was allowed into Preston Bus Station], then Accrington, Burnley, Halifax, Sheffield, Leicester Charles St.[diverting off the A50 to serve Beaumont Leys], London Gloucester Rd, London Aldgate & Maidstone to Dover Docks.

I doubt many people travelled throughout[except coach enthusiasts], but it seemed to be well-used for certain sections of the route, e.g. it was well-timed to allow a day-return from Halifax, Burnley and Accrington to Blackpool.

I was working in Leicestershire at the time, and my parents who lived in Halifax used it on several occasions when they visited, for it allowed far quicker journeys than National Express, and direct too.

I had a ride on it once, from Beaumont Leys to Dover, and was amazed the fare was only about £6 return.

Unfortunately, punctuality was a problem with such a long route, and the service didn't last very long.

But, interesting times in the coaching scene.

 

[deltic]

Thanks for the operator names - helped track down the following article which reports on travelling on the three coach operators between London and Newcastle in 1984

http://archive.commercialmotor.com/.../51/amazing-these-coach-services-to-newcastle

 

[Mugby]

There was a third company running London-Newcastle services: Blueline, which was operated by Barton Transport. I think they started from King's Cross.

Are you sure about this or are you thinking of Barton's involvement in British Coachways?

I've never seen any reference to Bartons operating such a service.

 

[transmanche]

Are you sure about this or are you thinking of Barton's involvement in British Coachways?

I've never seen any reference to Bartons operating such a service.

See the article that deltic linked to above.

 

[Mugby]

Yes, I see. Bartons had a presence in Newcastle due to their take over of Hall Bros. and it's quite likely that Blueline passengers had to wait outside an office which had 'Barton Transport' on it but I think the assumption that Bartons were involved in the operation is erroneous. They certainly never operated any Setras!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

See the article that deltic linked to above.

I think Mugby is correct and it's a reflection of the way the article is written too.

I suspect that the "NBC bus station" mentioned is/was Marlborough Crescent in Newcastle. There were a selection of tatty offices (nearest the Central Station) that acted as Northern's travel office plus other firms. I remember Primrose but don't know if Barton had an office. They did have a northern outpost, having acquired Hall Bros of South Shields, and so you would see Barton coaches in the North East and maybe they did have an office there that also acted as an agent for BlueLine. However, I don't recall Barton operating a London service.

BlueLine was an independent that quickly faltered and was then bought by Trimdon Motor Services, also operator of Zebra Holidays. BlueLine continued to operate even after Zebra was wound up (as the boom in UK to Spain coach holidays declined). That continued up until c.1986 when TMS sold BlueLine to Abbotts of Leeming, releasing funds for launching competitive services on Teesside and in T&W (esp. Newcastle).

Under Abbotts, BlueLine continued to operated into the mid 1990's, even adding another route into West Yorkshire (Bradford to London, IIRC).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes, I see. Bartons had a presence in Newcastle due to their take over of Hall Bros. and it's quite likely that Blueline passengers had to wait outside an office which had 'Barton Transport' on it but I think the assumption that Bartons were involved in the operation is erroneous. They certainly never operated any Setras!

I was still typing when you posted

 

[AndrewP]

Fascinating article - so much has changed since my youth.

The idea that coaches could be superior to East Coast trains seems crazy now and says a lot about what InterCity and GNER achieved.

One more thing - would that bus station not have been Gallowgate rather than Marlborough Crescent (neither of which exist any more)?

 

[gordonthemoron]

NX used Gallowgate when I used them in the 70s although I thought they moved to MC. I have a feeling that Armstrong Galley ran from Northumberland Street rather than a bus station (it hasn't always bee pedestrianised )

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Fascinating article - so much has changed since my youth.

The idea that coaches could be superior to East Coast trains seems crazy now and says a lot about what InterCity and GNER achieved.

One more thing - would that bus station not have been Gallowgate rather than Marlborough Crescent (neither of which exist any more)?

No, Gordon is quite right. National Express (and Scottish Citylink) used Gallowgate exclusively; they were still there until the site was redeveloped in c.1998. I can't recall but seem to think that AG used Northumberland Street (they had a travel office at the top end near Haymarket Metro) but latterly did use Gallowgate though by that time, NX had a covered loading bay (formerly part of the United/Northumbria depot building).

Marlborough Crescent was used by local bus services heading to Derwentside and Tyne Valley (mainly Northern but some United) but also was a coach station for firms like Wright Bros and Primrose, so I suspect that is where BlueLine picked up.

 

[Mugby]

Since the subject has been raised, there was another operator, largely forgotten now called Express Travel. Although not, apparently, using the terminus mentioned in the OP, they operated from Liverpool to London via Manchester Airport, Manchester, Sheffield, Derby, Leicester and Northampton. There were two journeys each way per day departing Liverpool at 0615 and 1015, departing London 0830 and 1530.
It was known as X60 and started in November 1994. I still have the glossy leaflets for it which strangely don't give any precise departure points, just the towns served.

I suppose with an overall journey time from Liverpool to London of more than eight hours, it was never going to be a practical proposition, even Sheffield is shown as over five hours to London. It was intended to be a high class operation with quality coaches offering on board refreshments, sandwiches 70p - £1.20. Tea 35p, Coffee 45p.

The name on the publicity was Express Travel, Woodend Avenue, Speke, Liverpool.
Does anyone know who they were and how long it lasted?

 

[overthewater]

Five Hours between Sheffield and London, Megabus does it much faster 3h 30m? during the day.

 

[Titfield]

Excelsior (Bournemouth) were part of British Coachways and ran Bournemouth to London Kings Cross.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Grey Green (London) was a member?

Were Castleways of Winchcombe a member? (I think they were)

 

[radamfi]

The name on the publicity was Express Travel, Woodend Avenue, Speke, Liverpool.
Does anyone know who they were and how long it lasted?

I used Express Travel at least once. They were previously a National Express contractor but when they lost contracts they decided to launch competitive services. I do remember they didn't carry good loadings. Before long, the service ended and they were back as a National Express contractor.

 

[Mr Manager]

Later to become Amberline. quite a large supplier to Nat Exp in the good old days

Another one in the British coachways consortium was Morris Bros from Swansea. they ran to Kings cross coach stn (for those who can remember that) from Swansea and Cardiff. My mind is playing tricks on me at the moment as i should be able to quote all the members of British Coachways as i was involved in its initial set up

 

[deltic]

A bit of digging suggests it was Wallace Arnold and Evan Evans that used the terminal at Royal National Hotel in Bedford Way. Services operated from there included HoverLloyd coach services to Ramsgate and services to Yorkshire and the West Country

Commercial Motors archive is a good source of information on coach services in the past http://archive.commercialmotor.com/

 

[Mr Manager]

Quite correct butnot Quite

Evan Evans was a Broker of such. just a brand name. the coaches where owned by Wahl coaches later to become Redwing and famous for operating coaches like the Man sr280 and Mercedes 0303's as the owner was German. The involvement of Wallace Arnold was a bit of a bane of contention at the time for political reasons within the consortium who thought that they would try and Muscle in on the at the time buoyant London tourist traffic with Americans and Japanese at a all time High peak. Rumours where rife at the time that Wallace Arnold where bidding for the Jtb (Japan travel Bureau) contract that Grey Green had that was subsequently lost to Horseshoe Coaches.

 

[howittpie]

Later to become Amberline. quite a large supplier to Nat Exp in the good old days

Another one in the British coachways consortium was Morris Bros from Swansea. they ran to Kings cross coach stn (for those who can remember that) from Swansea and Cardiff. My mind is playing tricks on me at the moment as i should be able to quote all the members of British Coachways as i was involved in its initial set up

It was Amberline that became Express Travel. After falling out with Nat Ex they started competing with the strap line Express Travel The Extra Option which became known as the Empty Option pretty quickly they then made up with Nat Ex and gained contracts back. I believe Selwyns then took them over.

 

[quarella]

According to "The Rise and Fall of British Coachways" by Ken Bateman and Owen Woodliffe the operators of the consortium were:- Grey-Green, Wallace Arnold, Ellerman-Bee Line, Shearings-Pleasureways, Morris Bros, Excelsior Group, Warners-Fairfax, Barton, Park's of Hamilton, York's Travel.

 

[Mr Manager]

Thanks for the Memory Jog

That Book is good but has a few inaccurate comments to be honest. Warner Fairfax certainly where the biggest "claimants" in the consortium which was run as a members club. each paying a fee which graduated upon ticket sales. the routes that did not cover cost was paid back to the operator in the form of a "Hub Cheque" for want of better words. those with full loads each way paid the Hub. those which did not cover costs received a hub cheque to cover costs. this should have been cost neutral but different fiddles and non conformance it did not quite work out.

 

[quarella]

Publlished in 1984 so events were still fresh in the mind but possibly too soon for some of the finer details of operating practise.

 

[gingerheid]

It was Amberline that became Express Travel. After falling out with Nat Ex they started competing with the strap line Express Travel The Extra Option which became known as the Empty Option pretty quickly they then made up with Nat Ex and gained contracts back. I believe Selwyns then took them over.

Was that the company that had a logo where the tail of the e came up and formed half of the x? I remember that once when I was in Victoria I saw an impressive collection of leaflets for a company I'd never heard of, and that the next time they were gone again.

An independent I missed was Bruce's Londonliner from Glasgow, who did very cheap services to Kings Cross.

 

[AndrewP]

No, Gordon is quite right. National Express (and Scottish Citylink) used Gallowgate exclusively; they were still there until the site was redeveloped in c.1998. I can't recall but seem to think that AG used Northumberland Street (they had a travel office at the top end near Haymarket Metro) but latterly did use Gallowgate though by that time, NX had a covered loading bay (formerly part of the United/Northumbria depot building).

Marlborough Crescent was used by local bus services heading to Derwentside and Tyne Valley (mainly Northern but some United) but also was a coach station for firms like Wright Bros and Primrose, so I suspect that is where BlueLine picked up.

Thanks for the clarification - Newcastle has changed so much over the last few years with the city centre thriving in a way that many cities would be jealous of.

For those interested Worswick Street bus station still exists but no longer used by buses.

 

[Mugby]

Was that the company that had a logo where the tail of the e came up and formed half of the x? I remember that once when I was in Victoria I saw an impressive collection of leaflets for a company I'd never heard of, and that the next time they were gone again.

Yes it was. It could have worked if they had operated a reasonably direct route from Liverpool to London but the route they chose to run was so circuitous it was doomed to failure. Just imagine departing Liverpool at 1015 and four and a quarter hours later you had only reached Derby where you had a half hour break.

Not a very appealing proposition!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Amberline did come before Express Travel. It was a complex history that I struggle to fully understand. I think Amberline was an independent. The NatEx ops were originally Crosville but were transferred in a clandestine operation (dead of night) to Ribble because of IR issues.

I think Amberline took on the NatEx contracts later (after Ribble sold to Stagecoach?) but then became part of Crosville Wales (when it was a NatEx company?) but it was then eventually part of British Bus. Around 1994, a big falling out with NatEx saw ET and West Riding launch competing services before peace was restored. ET became a major NX operator before sale to Selwyns.

 

[gingerheid]

Yes it was. It could have worked if they had operated a reasonably direct route from Liverpool to London but the route they chose to run was so circuitous it was doomed to failure. Just imagine departing Liverpool at 1015 and four and a quarter hours later you had only reached Derby where you had a half hour break.

Not a very appealing proposition!

Ta! I remember picking up a leaflet to somewhere in the NE (possibly Newcastle). The route was reasonable but I was left scratching my head at the timings, which were some bizarre hybrid of a daytime and overnight service that appeared to have been designed to discourage anyone with any sense.

I really liked the logo though!