Incorrect penalty fare?

[kh57379]

Hi, I was taking a train e.g. from point A to point C and had a lawful standard class ticket. From point A to point B (about 15min) I was sat at first class temporarily as I had a lot of food out in the open and was trying to avoid suffocating my fellow passengers, with the intent to move back to my regular cabin seat after I had finished my food and cleared everything. At point B, I was issued a penalty fare for being in first class.

I explained that it was temporary and I was genuinely doing it to avoid suffocating my fellow passengers but they wouldn’t let me go. Fine, so my offence was committed from my boarding station (point A) to the station we were at (point B). But they decided to fine me the £100 + first class fare from point A to C even though I was sat in standard with my lawful ticket from point B to C.

My offence was only committed from point A to point B. In the eyes of the law, I had an entirely legitimate standard class ticket from point B to C and I was also sat there. The whole time they were issuing the penalty I told them I am moving back to standard class after eating (which I did) but they still decided to penalise me from point A to C (which is 5x the amount from point A to B which is where the offence was!). They wouldn’t listen to me, kept dismissing my explanation and decided to fine me for the entire journey of my legitimate ticket when the offence incurred in only a small portion of my journey.

Does this count as an incorrect issuance of the penalty fare as they are fining me for a far larger ticket price than the “offence” I committed?

Thanks

 

[z444z]

At the moment the penalty fare was issued, where was the train - what was the next stop - and where was the penalty fare issued from and to?

Please post a photo of the documents you were given, make sure to redact your personal details and the reference number but we will need to see the station names involved to be able to help fully!

 

[kh57379]

At the moment the penalty fare was issued, where was the train - what was the next stop - and where was the penalty fare issued from and to?

Please post a photo of the documents you were given, make sure to redact your personal details and the reference number but we will need to see the station names involved to be able to help fully!

Hey there.

Boarded: Potters Bar
Penalty fare issued at: Welwyn north approximately

Penalty fare: £100 + £64.50 lol. £64.50 is the price of a first class ticket from PBR to CBG. My “offence” was only from PBR to Welwyn North .

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi, I was taking a train e.g. from point A to point C and had a lawful standard class ticket. From point A to point B (about 15min) I was sat at first class temporarily as I had a lot of food out in the open and was trying to avoid suffocating my fellow passengers, with the intent to move back to my regular cabin seat after I had finished my food and cleared everything. At point B, I was issued a penalty fare for being in first class.

I explained that it was temporary and I was genuinely doing it to avoid suffocating my fellow passengers but they wouldn’t let me go. Fine, so my offence was committed from my boarding station (point A) to the station we were at (point B). But they decided to fine me the £100 + first class fare from point A to C even though I was sat in standard with my lawful ticket from point B to C.

My offence was only committed from point A to point B. In the eyes of the law, I had an entirely legitimate standard class ticket from point B to C and I was also sat there. The whole time they were issuing the penalty I told them I am moving back to standard class after eating (which I did) but they still decided to penalise me from point A to C (which is 5x the amount from point A to B which is where the offence was!). They wouldn’t listen to me, kept dismissing my explanation and decided to fine me for the entire journey of my legitimate ticket when the offence incurred in only a small portion of my journey.

Does this count as an incorrect issuance of the penalty fare as they are fining me for a far larger ticket price than the “offence” I committed?

Thanks

Why would your food reduce oxygen levels for fellow passengers in standard class and suffocate them?

Was this a Thameslink train with no tables in standard class but you wanted a table to eat your meal more conveniently from so used first class without paying for a first class ticket?

 

[kh57379]

Why would your food reduce oxygen levels for fellow passengers in standard class and suffocate them?

Not necessarily suffocate, but stink up the cabin. I know it sounds really weird and maybe I shouldn’t have considered others so much but honestly the smell of other people’s food makes me nauseated and this is the cost of empathy

 

[WesternLancer]

Not necessarily suffocate, but stink up the cabin. I know it sounds really weird and maybe I shouldn’t have considered others so much but honestly the smell of other people’s food makes me nauseated and this is the cost of empathy

I see. Out of interest was the first class area otherwise empty? Ie no one else in it to have to put up with the smell.

It may well be that you should have been offered the PF to the next station.

 

[kh57379]

I see. Out of interest was the first class area otherwise empty? Ie no one else in it to have to put up with the smell.

It may well be that you should have been offered the PF to the next station.

Yes I asked what my rights were and one penalty fare man kept dismissing my questions while the other issued the penalty. They wouldn’t listen but the man who issued the penalty did say that he wrote in the report I was going to move back to standard once I was done eating and I did??? So I really did have a legitimate ticket the rest of the journey and the penalty fare seems invalid (to me at least, because I did not sit in first class from PBR all the way to CBG and it was written down in their own report/findings….)

 

[z444z]

My “offence” was only from PBR to Welwyn North .

It’s going to be difficult to help without an image of the penalty fare notice.

It’s not about portion of the journey where the offence took place - the regulations specify that the penalty fare must be issued from the boarding station to the next station the train calls at, unless the passenger requests for it to be issued to a later station. If this wasn’t followed then your appeal should be successful, but please upload an image so we can check it over properly and advise on how to word your appeal for best chances of success!

 

[kh57379]

It’s going to be difficult to help without an image of the penalty fare notice.

It’s not about portion of the journey where the offence took place - the regulations specify that the penalty fare must be issued from the boarding station to the next station the train calls at, unless the passenger requests for it to be issued to a later station. If this wasn’t followed then your appeal should be successful, but please upload an image so we can check it over properly and advise on how to word your appeal for best chances of success!

Hi I really promise that they charged me from PBR to CBG and their body cam has recordings of me questioning the whole process and them saying they will explain it later but all they said was: this is your fine, you can pay at the QR code or you can appeal here. No penalty fare just to the next station and I did not request for a penalty fare all the way to Cambridge! Promise lol

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Nov 2025 ==

Hi I really promise that they charged me from PBR to CBG and their body cam has recordings of me questioning the whole process and them saying they will explain it later but all they said was: this is your fine, you can pay at the QR code or you can appeal here. No penalty fare just to the next station and I did not request for a penalty fare all the way to Cambridge! Promise lol

Also, my “offence” was indeed from the boarding station to whatever station they decided to issue it at and hence it should really just have been from PBR - Welwyn north. I did not ask to be charged all the way to CBG and kept telling them I want to move back to standard but they were the ones who told me to stay put (I still moved back anyway)

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi I really promise that they charged me from PBR to CBG and their body cam has recordings of me questioning the whole process and them saying they will explain it later but all they said was: this is your fine, you can pay at the QR code or you can appeal here. No penalty fare just to the next station and I did not request for a penalty fare all the way to Cambridge! Promise lol

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Nov 2025 ==


Also, my “offence” was indeed from the boarding station to whatever station they decided to issue it at and hence it should really just have been from PBR - Welwyn north. I did not ask to be charged all the way to CBG and kept telling them I want to move back to standard but they were the ones who told me to stay put (I still moved back anyway)

Please show us the notice with your personal details removed, so we can scrutinise it. We need to *see* it.

 

[z444z]

Hi I really promise that they charged me from PBR to CBG and their body cam has recordings of me questioning the whole process and them saying they will explain it later but all they said was: this is your fine, you can pay at the QR code or you can appeal here. No penalty fare just to the next station and I did not request for a penalty fare all the way to Cambridge! Promise lol

It’s not that we don’t believe you, but we need to see the notice to check all aspects of it and fully understand what happened.

For example, we need to figure out what train you were on, where that train was recorded as being at the moment the penalty fare was issued and what the next station was, whether the amount charged is correct etc. All of this is difficult to do without actually seeing the notice.

 

[AlterEgo]

It’s not that we don’t believe you, but we need to see the notice to check all aspects of it and fully understand what happened.

For example, we need to figure out what train you were on, where that train was recorded as being at the moment the penalty fare was issued and what the next station was, whether the amount charged is correct etc. All of this is difficult to do without actually seeing the notice.

The format of the notice is also important as it needs to contain certain wording and warnings, just to add on top of this.

 

[kh57379]

The format of the notice is also important as it needs to contain certain wording and warnings, just to add on top of this.

I did not ask to be authorised to be sent to CBG on first class and they also didn’t offer to only penalise me from PBR to CBG. They also knew I had a legitimate tickets in standard class all the way up to CBG and noted in their report I was going to move back to standard after eating.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Nov 2025 ==

I did not ask to be authorised to be sent to CBG on first class and they also didn’t offer to only penalise me from PBR to CBG. They also knew I had a legitimate tickets in standard class all the way up to CBG and noted in their report I was going to move back to standard after eating.

I mean *offer to only penalise me from PBR to Welwyn North (which is the next stop)

 

[AlterEgo]

I did not ask to be authorised to be sent to CBG on first class and they also didn’t offer to only penalise me from PBR to CBG. They also knew I had a legitimate tickets in standard class all the way up to CBG and noted in their report I was going to move back to standard after eating.

When did you move back? After you finished eating, and the inspectors had left you alone?

 

[furlong]

By default a Penalty Fare issued on board is issued from the station where you boarded to the next stop of the train - precisely for the reason you identified, that from the next stop you have the opportunity to regularise your travel and again follow the rules. If this one wasn't, that gives you valid grounds for an appeal. The fare charged takes no account of anything you already paid. It can only be issued to a later stop of the train if you specifically ask for this and the inspector agrees to your request.

Read the regulations then appeal quoting 16(3)(a), 9(1A), 9(2A), 5(5A)(b), 9(6), 16(7).

Note that the appeal only deals with the Penalty element (£50 or £100). They may still attempt to make you pay the full first class fare for this portion of the journey, but you should be able to argue that this must be reduced by what you already paid so they do not profit from what happened. (Had they issued the PF correctly, they could keep the £50/£100 as profit on top of the first class fare but you may be entitled to a refund on the original now unused ticket that this replaced from your original point of sale minus admin fee.)

 

[kh57379]

When did you move back? After you finished eating, and the inspectors had left you alone?

Yes, I also took photos from my seat intermittently throughout the rest of my journey as proof that I was in standard class.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Nov 2025 ==

By default a Penalty Fare issued on board is issued from the station where you boarded to the next stop of the train - precisely for the reason you identified, that from the next stop you have the opportunity to regularise your travel and again follow the rules. If this one wasn't, that gives you valid grounds for an appeal. The fare charged takes no account of anything you already paid. It can only be issued to a later stop of the train if you specifically ask for this and the inspector agrees to your request.

Read the regulations then appeal quoting 16(3)(a), 9(1A), 9(2A), 5(5A)(b), 9(6), 16(7).

Note that the appeal only deals with the Penalty element (£50 or £100). They may still attempt to make you pay the full first class fare for this portion of the journey, but you should be able to argue that this must be reduced by what you already paid so they do not profit from what happened. (Had they issued the PF correctly, they could keep the £50/£100 as profit on top of the first class fare but you may be entitled to a refund on the original now unused ticket that this replaced from your original point of sale minus admin fee.)

Thanks mate I’ve been saying this from the start and that I had read the regulations as well as the penalty fare notice the entire time

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes, I also took photos from my seat intermittently throughout the rest of my journey as proof that I was in standard class.

I think you don't have a leg to stand on then, if you continued to eat and continued to commit the offence beyond the stop you're claiming you should be charged to.

You can cite the regulations provided by @furlong in the hope this provides a technical appeal, but I'll be frank in saying I think it's stretching credibility to remain there after the inspectors have gone, continue to eat your supposedly antisocial food in first class, and then claim to be the one wronged. I expect the appeal to be unsuccessful, especially if the panel asks the train company for bodycam footage and they see you remained there after the interaction and that you told them you'd move only when you finished your food. They appear to have already noted this fact and I believe it is reasonable and lawful for them to issue the PF in these circumstances to the destination.

 

[kh57379]

I think you don't have a leg to stand on then, if you continued to eat and continued to commit the offence beyond the stop you're claiming you should be charged to.

You can cite the regulations provided by @furlong in the hope this provides a technical appeal, but I'll be frank in saying I think it's stretching credibility to remain there after the inspectors have gone, continue to eat your supposedly antisocial food in first class, and then claim to be the one wronged. I expect the appeal to be unsuccessful, especially if the panel asks the train company for bodycam footage and they see you remained there after the interaction and that you told them you'd move only when you finished your food.

I’m confused by your response, I did indeed move to standard class after I had finished my food as promised but the officers moved into the next cabins to perform their checks so they did not see me move back to where I was meant to be. I did not overstay. The officers kept encouraging me to stay and told me I could but I said no and I did not (hence me moving to standard class and taking photos from my seat in standard class throughout the rest of the journey as my personal proof that I was indeed in standard class as I promised)

Regardless, I did not explicitly request for my penalty fare and it seemed like the officers were trying to trap me because they kept telling me to stay in first class all the way but I had no idea why(did not request for this)

 

[AlterEgo]

I’m confused by your response, I did indeed move to standard class after I had finished my food

When was this? It was after they left. What, are they supposed to watch you and figure out when you actually finally pack away your food and move back, having been told you'll move only when you're good and ready?

 

[kh57379]

When was this? It was after they left. What, are they supposed to watch you and figure out when you actually finally pack away your food and move back, having been told you'll move only when you're good and ready?

Hey let me clarify once more.

At Welwyn they issued the notice. I asked my rights and they dismissed me. Apparently my rights were to either have my fee from PBR to Welwyn north aka next station or ask the way to CBG upon request. I did not make any requests and was not made aware of this choice, the officers decided on their own.

I told them I’m going to move back after I finished eating. They told me to stay. I said no, my ticket is for the standard cabin, they left me to go into the next cabins.

Whether or not they saw me or their body cams recorded me, there is either proof from my phone with time stamps that I was sat in the standard cabin the rest of my journey (i was almost done eating when they found me and finished as they were issuing the notice) or train CCTVs. Eye witnesses too. Of course I did not expect them to be watching me so I had my back and collected evidence from my seat.

My point is that, they never clarified where they were issuing the notice up to and also never offered the option to only penalise until the next stop according to the regulations. I also never asked to be put on the ticket all the way to CBG.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Nov 2025 ==

Hey let me clarify once more.

At Welwyn they issued the notice. I asked my rights and they dismissed me. Apparently my rights were to either have my fee from PBR to Welwyn north aka next station or ask the way to CBG upon request. I did not make any requests and was not made aware of this choice, the officers decided on their own.

I told them I’m going to move back after I finished eating. They told me to stay. I said no, my ticket is for the standard cabin, they left me to go into the next cabins.

Whether or not they saw me or their body cams recorded me, there is either proof from my phone with time stamps that I was sat in the standard cabin the rest of my journey (i was almost done eating when they found me and finished as they were issuing the notice) or train CCTVs. Eye witnesses too. Of course I did not expect them to be watching me so I had my back and collected evidence from my seat.

My point is that, they never clarified where they were issuing the notice up to and also never offered the option to only penalise until the next stop according to the regulations. I also never asked to be put on the ticket all the way to CBG.

May I also add, they TOLD me to remain in my seat after not even clarifying that putting me on a penalty fare only until the next stop was an option. They never presented this as an option to me. Like a “ok we’ll charge you until Welwyn north, you can move back and use the rest of your standard ticket”

They literally handed me the notice with no explanation of the charges and told me to stay in my seat.

 

[AlterEgo]

Hey let me clarify once more.

At Welwyn they issued the notice. I asked my rights and they dismissed me. Apparently my rights were to either have my fee from PBR to Welwyn north aka next station or ask the way to CBG upon request. I did not make any requests and was not made aware of this choice, the officers decided on their own.

I told them I’m going to move back after I finished eating. They told me to stay. I said no, my ticket is for the standard cabin, they left me to go into the next cabins.

Whether or not they saw me or their body cams recorded me, there is either proof from my phone with time stamps that I was sat in the standard cabin the rest of my journey (i was almost done eating when they found me and finished as they were issuing the notice) or train CCTVs. Eye witnesses too. Of course I did not expect them to be watching me so I had my back and collected evidence from my seat.

My point is that, they never clarified where they were issuing the notice up to and also never offered the option to only penalise until the next stop according to the regulations. I also never asked to be put on the ticket all the way to CBG.

Equally, you told them you would not move immediately and hence it is probably reasonable for them to issue the Penalty Fare all the way to your destination. They knew you would not alight or regularise your situation at Welwyn North because you told them you would not, basically.

Which train were you on exactly? Was it this one? https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y31285/2025-11-18/detailed#allox_id=0 because if it is, you'd passed Welwyn North by the time the Penalty Fare was recorded as being issued.

Train companies do not behave that well when it comes to penalty fares and the appeals process is not nearly as laser sharp when it comes to strictly interpreting the regulations. I woold be extremely surprised to see this one succeed, but you never know! You have three appeals each of which stops the clock on the demand for the higher rate.

 

[kh57379]

Equally, you told them you would not move immediately and hence it is probably reasonable for them to issue the Penalty Fare all the way to your destination. They knew you would not alight or regularise your situation at Welwyn North because you told them you would not, basically.

Which train were you on exactly? Was it this one? https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y31285/2025-11-18/detailed#allox_id=0 because if it is, you'd passed Welwyn North by the time the Penalty Fare was recorded as being issued.

If you look at the ticket ot whatever they gave me, it says Welwyn garden city. If there’s any delay in the issuance, it’s 100% because they were documenting and taking photos from their end. I was also documenting and taking photos from my end. It took them quite a while to get the ticket printed and the entire time they were being vague. I kept asking questions, like what are my rights, and trying to explain myself the whole time. The ticket was not issued immediately.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Nov 2025 ==

If you look at the ticket ot whatever they gave me, it says Welwyn garden city. If there’s any delay in the issuance, it’s 100% because they were documenting and taking photos from their end. I was also documenting and taking photos from my end. It took them quite a while to get the ticket printed and the entire time they were being vague. I kept asking questions, like what are my rights, and trying to explain myself the whole time. The ticket was not issued immediately.

I did not even know what to say in that moment honestly. Imagine trying to finish your last 2 prawns which could be done in 2 minutes but these people come up to you and ask you lots of questions, to write some things down, start taking photos of you and so on. I was about to finish and move!

 

[AlterEgo]

If you look at the ticket ot whatever they gave me, it says Welwyn garden city. If there’s any delay in the issuance, it’s 100% because they were documenting and taking photos from their end. I was also documenting and taking photos from my end. It took them quite a while to get the ticket printed and the entire time they were being vague. I kept asking questions, like what are my rights, and trying to explain myself the whole time. The ticket was not issued immediately.

They never are issued immediately because inevitably there is some discussion, but the time of issue was at a time when they could not lawfully have issued it to Welwyn North, is my point. Where do you think they should have issued it to? Where were you when you moved back?

 

[kh57379]

They never are issued immediately because inevitably there is some discussion, but the time of issue was at a time when they could not lawfully have issued it to Welwyn North, is my point. Where do you think they should have issued it to? Where were you when you moved back?

Look, I didn’t even know it was an option. If they came up to me and told me “legally we have to issue until the next stop or a latter stop of your choosing” I would have said ok I will move in front of your eyes and you can issue it to the next stop.

When I explained myself they said it’s an offence, when I asked what my rights were they said they’ll say later, when I asked what was happening they said they were going to print a piece of paper, the paper will tell me everything, it’ll all be written down.

None of these were informed to me, and I also didn’t request it all the way to Cambridge. I could have requested it to Royston for all I care, but this was never presented as an option.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Nov 2025 ==

Look, I didn’t even know it was an option. If they came up to me and told me “legally we have to issue until the next stop or a latter stop of your choosing” I would have said ok I will move in front of your eyes and you can issue it to the next stop.

When I explained myself they said it’s an offence, when I asked what my rights were they said they’ll say later, when I asked what was happening they said they were going to print a piece of paper, the paper will tell me everything, it’ll all be written down.

None of these were informed to me, and I also didn’t request it all the way to Cambridge. I could have requested it to Royston for all I care, but this was never presented as an option.

Let’s not forget, the whole time the officers were telling me to just stay in my seat when I kept offering to move! In front of them!

 

[AlterEgo]

Look, I didn’t even know it was an option. If they came up to me and told me “legally we have to issue until the next stop or a latter stop of your choosing” I would have said ok I will move in front of your eyes and you can issue it to the next stop.

They don't have to tell you this. Legally, they don't.

When I explained myself they said it’s an offence, when I asked what my rights were they said they’ll say later, when I asked what was happening they said they were going to print a piece of paper, the paper will tell me everything, it’ll all be written down.

This is fine. The Penalty fare notice does explain your rights, what is due, and how to appeal. There is nothing unlawful here.

None of these were informed to me, and I also didn’t request it all the way to Cambridge. I could have requested it to Royston for all I care, but this was never presented as an option.

They don't have to, legally. It is up to you to specify and up to you to know the law, same as any other criminal or civil matter. But if you want to appeal on these grounds, the panel will have to think "so the appellant said they weren't going to move until they'd finished eating, so it is clearly unworkable to issue to the next stop two minutes away, as they'd probably have remained there, liable for further penalty fares" and have to consider whether what happened was both reasonable and lawful. What should happen to someone being penalty fared who openly states they will only move when they are good and ready?

You need to think about this before writing your appeal and consider how you will approach this part of the issue.

 

[kh57379]

They don't have to tell you this. Legally, they don't.


This is fine. The Penalty fare notice does explain your rights, what is due, and how to appeal. There is nothing unlawful here.


They don't have to, legally. It is up to you to specify and up to you to know the law, same as any other criminal or civil matter. But if you want to appeal on these grounds, the panel will have to think "so the appellant said they weren't going to move until they'd finished eating, so it is clearly unworkable to issue to the next stop, as they'd probably have remained there, liable for further penalty fares" and have to consider whether what happened was both reasonable and lawful. What should happen to someone being penalty fared who openly states they will only move when they are good and ready?

You need to think about this before writing your appeal and consider how you will approach this part of the issue.

As I said, I had 2 prawns left lol I was going to move at that stop but I got accosted. Hard to argue yeah but I kept asking if I could move in front of the officers but they kept telling me to sit down. They were the ones telling me to sit down! I wanted to move! I don’t know how to get this point across to you.

 

[AlterEgo]

As I said, I had 2 prawns left lol I was going to move at that stop but I got accosted. Hard to argue yeah but I kept asking if I could move in front of the officers but they kept telling me to sit down. They were the ones telling me to sit down! I wanted to move! I don’t know how to get this point across to you.

Becuase you said in the opening post you would move back "after eating", which is something you said the inspectors noted down. This will make a material difference to your appeal, because if they have noted it then it will support their decision.

As it was, you didn't move back until after the inspectors had gone so this undermines your point. You were caught bang to rights here and attempting to appeal on a technical nature with a low chance of success, so getting the facts correct and understanding evidence which will count against you is very important. It isn't me who needs to understand this, it's a panel of strangers ultimately. I recommend drafting your response and posting it here for comments, but I would leave out any reference to food or the number of prawns etc! That you moved back at all after the issuance is immaterial to the validity of the Penalty Fare itself, but you need.to demonstrate that the inspectors acted *unlawfully*.

 

[kh57379]

Becuase you said in the opening post you would move back "after eating", which is something you said the inspectors noted down. This will make a material difference to your appeal, because if they have noted it then it will support their decision.

As it was, you didn't move back until after the inspectors had gone so this undermines your point. You were caught bang to rights here and attempting to appeal on a technical nature with a low chance of success, so getting the facts correct and understanding evidence which will count against you is very important. It isn't me who needs to understand this, it's a panel of strangers ultimately. I recommend drafting your response and posting it here for comments, but I would leave out any reference to food or the number of prawns etc! That you moved back at all after the issuance is immaterial to the validity of the Penalty Fare itself, but you need.to demonstrate that the inspectors acted *unlawfully*.

The unlawful part is telling me to sit down when I said I wanted to move and issuing me a fare all the way to Cambridge on the basis that they told me to sit down despite me wanting to move. When I was talking about that “I was going to move” part, that was me trying to explain to them initially how I even got to first class in the first place. After that initial explanation I asked them lots of questions - my rights (would not tell me), can I move to standard (no sit down we are printing this for you).

 

[AlterEgo]

The unlawful part is telling me to sit down when I said I wanted to move and issuing me a fare all the way to Cambridge on the basis that they told me to sit down despite me wanting to move.

That isn't unlawful. The Regulations are fairly narrow and given the specifics of your case neither support nor undermine you.

The best thing you can do is draft an appeal and post it for comments here, having read the Regulations as cited upthread. If isn't me you have to convince. I don't care. I don't like the train companies. I'm trying to help you straighten out the facts and get you to understand how the appeal will work in practice, and what will assist you and what evidence will count against you.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

The unlawful part is telling me to sit down when I said I wanted to move and issuing me a fare all the way to Cambridge on the basis that they told me to sit down despite me wanting to move. When I was talking about that “I was going to move” part, that was me trying to explain to them initially how I even got to first class in the first place. After that initial explanation I asked them lots of questions - my rights (would not tell me), can I move to standard (no sit down we are printing this for you).

I think you need to take a step back a minute and try and see what the Revenue Inspectors have seen to understand why they have issues it in this way. After all, you don't seem to have an issue being issued with a PF, merely the destination/price charged.

- Inspector asks for your ticket
- You show a standard ticket in a 1st class area
- Inspector states they must Penalty Fare you
- You state you are just there to eat and will move back to standard once finished
- Train is approaching WGC, you show no sign of moving to standard class
- Inspector tells you to remain in the seat to issue to PF (the PF authorises you to be there until your destination so again they say you can remain there)
- Inspector issues PF to destination not next stop as you aren't packing up to move
- PF therefore issued beyond next stop so must be to destination
- After Inspector moves on, you finish food and then move to standard class
- You take evidence to show you did move after the fact to standard class

Would this be a fair summary?