Incorrect interchange time on NRE

[alistairlees]

For a journey such as this:

http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/GTW/LDS/151118/0700/dep

NRE shows journeys that have a minimum of 21 minutes (rather than 31 minutes) for interchange between St Pancras and Kings Cross (or vice versa).

The interchange time data is:
STP - 15 minutes
STP to KGX fixed link (walk) - 1 minute
KGX - 15 minutes
Total: 31 minutes

NRE is showing
STP - 10 minutes
STP to KGX fixed link (walk) - 1 minute
KGX - 10 minutes
Total: 21 minutes

This is resulting in different itineraries from other journey planners. You can see the same behaviour on other IPTIS-powered journey planners (e.g. Southern Railway).

Whilst 21 minutes might still be reasonable, the point is that this is not correct, according to the data. If some journey planners can simply override data, then there is simply no point - everyone might as well make stuff up.

Thoughts?

 

[Hadders]

Interesting. I wonder if they’re in the process of reducing the interchange time between the two stations but it hasn’t filtered through into sites like BR Times etc.

To be honest 21 minutes would be much more reasonable than 31.

 

[alistairlees]

It's a good suggestion, but that's not the answer. The data is unchanged. Everyone has access to the same data. This is a unilateral decision by IPTIS / NRE to change the interchange times where there's a KGX - STP interchange. They have not changed interchange times wholly within STP (or KGX), so far as I can see.

 

[JB_B]

For a journey such as this:

http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/GTW/LDS/151118/0700/dep

NRE shows journeys that have a minimum of 21 minutes (rather than 31 minutes) for interchange between St Pancras and Kings Cross (or vice versa).

The interchange time data is:
STP - 15 minutes
STP to KGX fixed link (walk) - 1 minute
KGX - 15 minutes
Total: 31 minutes

NRE is showing
STP - 10 minutes
STP to KGX fixed link (walk) - 1 minute
KGX - 10 minutes
Total: 21 minutes

This is resulting in different itineraries from other journey planners. You can see the same behaviour on other IPTIS-powered journey planners (e.g. Southern Railway).

Whilst 21 minutes might still be reasonable, the point is that this is not correct, according to the data. If some journey planners can simply override data, then there is simply no point - everyone might as well make stuff up.

Thoughts?

I can't see anything in the .msn/.tsi data to support the NRE behaviour either. It would be interesting to know what's going on here.

 

[yorkie]

Here is an example itinerary:

http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/servi...ndResponseId=4&isOutboundJourneySelected=true

16:04 Stevenage [SVG]
16:33 London Kings Cross [KGX]

16:43 London Kings Cross [KGX]
16:44 London St Pancras International [STP]

16:58 London St Pancras International [STP]
17:03 Kentish Town [KTN]

So it's clearly applying a 10minute 'interchange' at KGX, then 1 minute to walk to STP, and then the first available train after a further 10 minutes at STP.

If anyone wishes to purchase a ticket on a shorter than usual interchange (as this may be advantageous to some people), you can use any of the following TOCs websites: GTR (all brands), Southeastern, Virgin Trains East Coast.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Virgin Trains East Coast.

Good luck with that one

 

[A Challenge]

Good luck with that one

Been overridden has it?

 

[Starmill]

Been overridden has it?

Not that I can see.

 

[yorkie]

@A Challenge - I think you misunderstand. I was referring to my list of booking sites which referred to the old franchise name and I didn't realise to change it when I made my post. The reply by @Wallsendmag was referring to the change in name from VTEC to LNER.

Good luck with that one

I need to update my list! (However the domain name redirects anyway and many people don't even know it's changed hands, or at least don't know the new name, and quite frankly the latest name is almost an irrelevance, given how often it changes! )

Anyway, I'd like to see more sensible interchange times between King's Cross and St Pancras, and this seems like a positive step, however it should be done through official methods, not unofficially. I also would say 25 minutes would be a good compromise but I don't see how it can be anything other than 31 minutes given the current rules on how to calculate such interchanges and I am not sure how easy it would be to change the rules.

I suspect it will be 'fixed' soon.

 

[30907]

I have a memory that, back in the days of the Pentonville Road station, the interchange time from KGX or STP (the old concourse, obviously) was 20 minutes - am I right?
I am not sure what the optimum solution is:
10 minutes within KGX could be tight (Coach A, Platform 0 to the Suburbans including 2 barriers), as would Thameslink to SE at STP, so these ought to stay at 15min. On the other hand, KGX to TL in 20 is safe enough and 25 ample.
Is it possible to set the walk time to -5 instead of +1? Or to create a specific time for a combination of STP+KGX?

 

[alistairlees]

Is it possible to set the walk time to -5 instead of +1? Or to create a specific time for a combination of STP+KGX?

Nope, the data structure apparently doesn't support negative values. Otherwise that would have been done ages ago. There's no way to support a specific interchange time for a station where it is paired with another station either; that would also require a change to the data structure.

Obviously these things could be done; they would just need changes to retailing and data systems above and beyond a mere change to the value of some data.

 

[Haywain]

The problem is that St Pancras is effectively 4 different stations, and one solution doesn't fit all of them. Using the station regularly and being very familiar with Kings Cross, I would consider 10 minutes sufficient for me to get from there to the Thameslink platforms most of the time and 15 plenty. However, for the East Midlands platforms you really need a bit longer - 21 minutes for a change looks very tight, especially for someone who doesn't know their way around either station. As there are so many variables with different sets of platforms at both stations I don't think there would be much to gain from reducing the interchange to anything less than, perhaps, 25 minutes without causing as many problems as are solved.