Incident on train

[yorkie]

Indeed; your ticket was valid between Earley and Reading.

It doesn't cost any extra to travel on any part of the route between Reading and Waterloo, on top of what you already paid, because your ticket is valid from Reading to London via any permitted route and the route via Earley & Staines is a permitted route.

For future reference, for anyone else reading this forum, this case demonstrates why it's so important to:

• show all ticket(s) held to staff, at the time of inspection
• inform us of exactly what ticket(s) are held (including any relevant route restrictions etc)
• inform us what journey is being made, what company you were travelling on, etc.

Some people choose not to disclose the full information, which is their choice, but it does mean we are unable to provide the best possible, complete and accurate advice.

It's not as uncommon as people might think, for passengers and/or staff, to believe a valid ticket is invalid. We have access to some of the best experts in the rail industry on this forum who can provide definitive answers, which are not always known by people you may encounter on your journey.

 

[travelgal]

Indeed; your ticket was valid between Earley and Reading.

It doesn't cost any extra to travel on any part of the route between Reading and Waterloo, on top of what you already paid, because your ticket is valid from Reading to London via any permitted route and the route via Earley & Staines is a permitted route.

For future reference, for anyone else reading this forum, this case demonstrates why it's so important to:

• show all ticket(s) held to staff, at the time of inspection
• inform us of exactly what ticket(s) are held (including any relevant route restrictions etc)
• inform us what journey is being made, what company you were travelling on, etc.

Some people choose not to disclose the full information, which is their choice, but it does mean we are unable to provide the best possible, complete and accurate advice.

It's not as uncommon as people might think, for passengers and/or staff, to believe a valid ticket is invalid. We have access to some of the best experts in the rail industry on this forum who can provide definitive answers, which are not always known by people you may encounter on your journey.

The only thing I don’t understand is why the inspector kicked up a fuss if my season ticket, which I showed him, is valid (as you say). And why he felt the need to accuse me of regular fare evasion when he literally had my valid monthly pass in his hand ..

 

[AlterEgo]

Another great endorsement of the ticket office in this thread. It would be interesting to see what product they would missell to cover the “gap”.

 

[Haywain]

It would be interesting to see what product they would missell to cover the “gap”.

Probably an Earley to Zones 1-6 season ticket at exactly the same fare with exactly the same validity.

 

[travelgal]

Probably an Earley to Zones 1-6 season ticket at exactly the same fare with exactly the same validity.

Well, yes, that is what the woman at the ticket office this morning told me i should buy next time. But you guys think she’s wrong?

 

[yorkie]

Well, yes, that is what the woman at the ticket office this morning told me i should buy next time. But you guys think she’s wrong?

We don't "think" she is wrong as such; we know she is wrong.

The only thing I don’t understand is why the inspector kicked up a fuss if my season ticket, which I showed him, is valid (as you say). And why he felt the need to accuse me of regular fare evasion when he literally had my valid monthly pass in his hand ..

Without witnessing the interaction, it's difficult to say.

However....

.... I spoke to the people at the station today and she said that my current card doesn’t include earley, but when I renew my card next month I can include earley at no additional cost.

...some people employed within the rail industry, whose job it is to understand fares and ticketing, do not actually understand key concepts, and instead of looking things up, or admitting they don't know, decide to make something up.

From what you are saying, that seems to include SWR revenue protection officers, and GWR ticket office staff at Reading. But you can encounter such individuals at almost any location, at most TOCs, as this is a deep-rooted, long-standing problem that the rail industry seems unable and unwilling to address, let alone resolve.

There are plenty of threads on this forum discussing poor knowledge among some railway staff. We need to keep this thread focussed on your specific issue, rather than become a generic thread debating why some people whose job it is to understand tickets don't do their job properly and bring their employers into disrepute.

I suggest we leave this thread be at this point, until you have any further correspondence / updates. Once you have some additional information, or a response from SWR, we can then provide advice regarding how to proceed.

 

[Haywain]

I think I have all the info I need now and will update this thread if/when a letter is sent.

When you respond, as well as telling them about the season ticket, you can give SWR the smartcard number (long number starting 633...) and they will be able to look up exactly what ticket was held on that smartcard to confirm that.

 

[The exile]

The only thing I don’t understand is why the inspector kicked up a fuss if my season ticket, which I showed him, is valid (as you say). And why he felt the need to accuse me of regular fare evasion when he literally had my valid monthly pass in his hand ..

Well - you’d presented him with a ticket you’d just bought and maybe said something that implied you didn’t have a ticket valid for that bit of the journey (which after all, you thought was the case). Judging by some of the earlier posts you may not have passed the “attitude test” with flying colours, so maybe it’s not entirely surprising he took someone whose actions (and maybe words) were those of a fare evader at their word.

 

[fandroid]

I had a look at seasons on the SWR website. There does seem to be an "only via Staines" option for season tickets from Earley to London. The OP should be careful she doesn't get sold one of those in future! (Apart from anything else, she'd lose the will to live if forced to endure that journey every day)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jul 2025 ==

A further thought. Just to clarify the validity of that Reading to London season ticket. It means you can travel all day every day between Reading and London on the SWR route and the GWR route and the Elizabeth Line. That includes travelling from Earley to Reading or Wokingham, for instance, at weekends as well as weekdays. You might find that useful outside of work journeys.

*(edited to clarify which season ticket I am referring to)

 

[Hadders]

To add, for the benefit of anyone reading this in the future....

'Normal' tickets between Reading and London (whether to London Terminals or London Zones 1-6) are routed either 'via Slough' (for use into Paddington) or 'via Staines' for (use into Waterloo). Season tickets are routed 'Any Permitted' which means either route can be used.

A 'normal' ticket only allows one journey to be made so travelling from Earley to Paddington via Reading with a Reading to London ticket would not be allowed.

BUT...

A season ticket is valid for unlimited journeys and you are allowed to start and finish short as long as you're on a Permitted Route. Consequently, with a Reading to London Terminals (or Zones 1-6) season ticket you can make unlimited journeys between Earley and Reading and Reading and Paddington.

Assuming that the season ticket was presented during the ticket inspection, it seems that the ticket inspector did not understand this. And neither did the clerk at the ticket office.

 

[Haywain]

'Normal' tickets between Reading and London (whether to London Terminals or London Zones 1-6) are routed either 'via Slough' (for use into Paddington)

Walk-up tickets are not routed 'via Slough', they are routed 'Any Permitted'. Just the same as season tickets.

 

[yorkie]

Walk-up tickets are not routed 'via Slough', they are routed 'Any Permitted'. Just the same as season tickets.

Yes, for London Terminals/Travelcards, though there are "via Slough" fares when extending an existing Travelcard from Boundary Zone locations.

In any case, Hadders point is that if the fare is routed Any Permitted - which this ticket clearly will be - then it's valid on either route, so there is no doubt this ticket was valid.

Anyway, I suggest we wait until there are any further updates or correspondence, to keep the thread focussed.

 

[Haywain]

though there are "via Slough" fares when extending an existing Travelcard from Boundary Zone locations.

That's as maybe, but specifically not what was being referred to:

'Normal' tickets between Reading and London (whether to London Terminals or London Zones 1-6)

 

[Hadders]

Apologies, tickets between Reading and London Terminals are routed 'Any Permitted' or 'via Staines'. Tickets to Zones 1-6 are routed 'Any Permitted'.

The point I was trying to make, is that it's the season ticket that makes travelling from Earley to Paddington via Reading work. You can't do this with a normal ticket.

 

[BazingaTribe]

To add, for the benefit of anyone reading this in the future....

'Normal' tickets between Reading and London (whether to London Terminals or London Zones 1-6) are routed either 'via Slough' (for use into Paddington) or 'via Staines' for (use into Waterloo). Season tickets are routed 'Any Permitted' which means either route can be used.

A 'normal' ticket only allows one journey to be made so travelling from Earley to Paddington via Reading with a Reading to London ticket would not be allowed.

BUT...

A season ticket is valid for unlimited journeys and you are allowed to start and finish short as long as you're on a Permitted Route. Consequently, with a Reading to London Terminals (or Zones 1-6) season ticket you can make unlimited journeys between Earley and Reading and Reading and Paddington.

Assuming that the season ticket was presented during the ticket inspection, it seems that the ticket inspector did not understand this. And neither did the clerk at the ticket office.

Yup. I used to travel between Basingstoke and Reading and then home again. I often only used returns, but occasionally I had a weekly season ticket, which meant, going home, is get on a train going into Reading at Reading West and just wait onboard until it left back in the direction of Basingstoke.

The footbridge that used to exist at Reading West before electrification of the line there was very steep and so when I had the season ticket I'd do what I outlined above. Season tickets allow what would otherwise be considered doubling back. I never did that trick when I had an ordinary return.

Likewise if I had that season ticket I also used it at the weekend to get to Mortimer, the closest station to my parents' house.

So yeah, OP did have a ticket -- she just panicked and didn't realize it was valid on the day she was caught out. Going forward she should just present that when stopped on the service between Earley and Reading

 

[furlong]

Can I complain about him not letting me off the train to have the chat in public?

Yes - you can always complain. His perception of whether or not the tickets were valid isn't relevant - it is only the fact of actual validity that counts in law so, if you can evidence this, you might have a claim against him personally (though in practice you might begin by seeking compensation from his employer for the consequences of actions that might have been considered unlawful causing you to miss your connecting train).

For how many minutes were you detained potentially unlawfully? How many minutes late did you arrive at your final destination as a result?

The power of detention comes from here:

RORA 5(2) If a passenger having failed either to produce, or if requested to deliver up, a ticket showing that his fare is paid, or to pay his fare, refuses or fails on request by an officer or servant of a railway company, to give his name and address, any officer of the company may detain him until he can be conveniently brought before some justice or otherwise discharged by due course of law.

As if one ticket showing your fare had been paid wasn't enough, you say you produced a second one and so in those circumstances I don't think he would have any power of detention available.

 

[saismee]

As if one ticket showing your fare had been paid wasn't enough, you say you produced a second one and so in those circumstances I don't think he would have any power of detention available.

AIUI, revenue protection inspectors can still report people for prosecution if they have a ticket that was bought on the train. It sounds like OP's behaviour appeared shady and I think the RPI would be right in assuming that something is amiss.

 

[hornbeampark]

AIUI, revenue protection inspectors can still report people for prosecution if they have a ticket that was bought on the train. It sounds like OP's behaviour appeared shady and I think the RPI would be right in assuming that something is amiss.

That is right but @furlong is quoting a specific power in reference only to detention.

The ticket shows the fare was paid regardless of the time of issue.

 

[Haywain]

The ticket shows the fare was paid regardless of the time of issue.

That does nothing to remove the possibility of an offence having been committed (not, as it turns out, in this case).

 

[hornbeampark]

That does nothing to remove the possibility of an offence having been committed (not, as it turns out, in this case).

I agree.