Incident at Harrow & Wealdstone 25/10/17

[Bletchleyite]

Along similar lines it probably would have made sense to stop the 1834 at Apsley and Kings Langley, they are the only two it doesn't stop at and the few extra passengers for those would have fitted on. I did think whether it would make sense to extend it to MKC or even Northampton (it's not as if it does anything until the next day once it gets to Bletchley) but I doubt a full MKC load would have fitted on.

 

[DarloRich]

Along similar lines it probably would have made sense to stop the 1834 at Apsley and Kings Langley, they are the only two it doesn't stop at and the few extra passengers for those would have fitted on. I did think whether it would make sense to extend it to MKC or even Northampton (it's not as if it does anything until the next day once it gets to Bletchley) but I doubt a full MKC load would have fitted on.

Please don't get me started on some of the decisions LM make stopping wise. Just run all trains all stops in the event of disruption and clear people out of the way. You end up with some stations with very long gaps in service. I don't know when the Kings Langley people got home last night.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

My son did not leave Milton Keynes for Hemel until 2002 - no excuse for not running at least a stopper towards London - after all - there are significant non London flows to deal with - though the city clearly is vtally important.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think the general principle is "when the disruption clears, start running trains out of Euston on time". That way they don't have everything up the wall for very long, though staff would end up swapping diagrams.

Another option would be to split the service at Northampton (rarely is the disruption north thereof) and run as many 12-car sets all stations south of it as possible, I've only ever seen that done once during the heavy snows of about 2008. But those 12-car sets will be nearly empty at Leighton, and so that makes quite inefficient use of them, and if you institute that service it'll need to carry on all night.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My son did not leave Milton Keynes for Hemel until 2002 - no excuse for not running at least a stopper towards London - after all - there are significant non London flows to deal with - though the city clearly is vtally important.

That is quite bad given that the 1834, the first train out of Euston following the issue, left around 1855, over an hour earlier.

I can see why London commuters are a priority, but Euston wasn't *that* packed, most people had headed off for alternatives (most of which, having talked to others, took longer than just waiting for it to clear). Personally I have observed that a suicide tends to knacker things for between 2.5 and 3 hours - if I rock up roughly on 2 hours after the incident (as I did) it's usually worth just getting coffee/beer/food and waiting. I did consider EMT or Thameslink to Bedford then Marston Vale, but the 153 won't have had room for everyone who wanted that. The 1834 didn't leave anyone behind (except latecomers after the doors closed) - so basically the entire demand for stations south of and including Bletchley fitted on one busy but not full-and-standing 8-car 319 set.

A 12-car to Leighton, MKC, Wolverton and Northampton probably would have cleared the rest as far as LM was concerned.

 

[Antman]

i


Its really sad that people choose to end their lives at Harrow given the events of October 1952.

I'm not sure that's particularly relevant, it's just easy access to high speed trains like the Great Western out of Paddington.

 

[Mag_seven]

I'm not sure that's particularly relevant, it's just easy access to high speed trains like the Great Western out of Paddington.

Maybe I should have said "its a sad irony".

 

[Hellfire]

I got to Euston at 1800 as I was booked on the 1830 to Preston. By that time the concourse was not particularly packed as many had heeded the advice to find alternative routes. Only LOndon Overground was running to WFJ. One of the VT staff suggested I go to Kings Cross and travel to Leeds and pick up a TPE service to Preston. That is a long way round so I hung on at Euston.

I’m glad I did because things started moving around 1820. The 1830 to Glasgow pulled out at around 1850, absolutely rammed because the passengers from the 1730 were on board as well as a few early arrvals for the 1930. First Class meal service was suspended due to the loading. There was slow running to Rugby, where an additional stop was added, and we got to Preston 70 late.

I though VTWC did well to get things underway again. I sense things are worse in circumstances like this for those on shorter journeys with LM.
.

 

[oversteer]

Genuinely don't know why they sent off a 4-car for all stops to Tring when they had a 12-car train on platform 18 and three 8-car trains on 8/10/11. Those four trains hung about for the best part of an hour until they sent off the 1852 an hour late..

 

[Bletchleyite]

Genuinely don't know why they sent off a 4-car for all stops to Tring

Because it was probably not carrying a lot of passengers other than for Apsley and Kings Langley, because most of them were on the 1834?

 

[bb21]

It is about time the DfT brought in measuring broken connections (same TOC or different) on the same reporting basis as delayed services.

What is a "connection" and how do you measure it?

What qualifies as a "connection"?

Does a "connection" have to wait for the arrival of all connecting inbound services to be a success in your measure?

Not as simple to answer when you drill into it.

The fact is, whatever system you deploy, you will not be able to cover everything.

 

[Crossover]

Any idea what happened to 1S82? Still at Watford? Also where would it go after these kinds of incidents, to the depot and would they be in use the next day?

On the latter point, I presume it will depend on how badly damaged it is (or how much cleaning it needs...) as to how long it'll be out of service

 

[E_Reeves]

On the latter point, I presume it will depend on how badly damaged it is (or how much cleaning it needs...) as to how long it'll be out of service

Any idea on the unit number?

 

[Crossover]

Any idea on the unit number?

No idea!

 

[Mordac]

Any idea on the unit number?

390010 with the new livery.

 

[E_Reeves]

390010 with the new livery.

I can't tell if that comment is meant to be a joke or not...

 

[causton]

390010 is correct, Virgin put it out on the internal information on Tyrell.

 

[ag51ruk]

9

what does this have to do with your point? seems like a moan about unrelated

By abandoning the whole West Coast service for something happening 170 miles away, the effects are not just on people travelling to London - Virgin have effectively become a commuter service for many people in the North West, and when their trains don't run the remaining local services don't have the capacity to cope.

 

[Taunton]

9

By abandoning the whole West Coast service for something happening 170 miles away, the effects are not just on people travelling to London - Virgin have effectively become a commuter service for many people in the North West, and when their trains don't run the remaining local services don't have the capacity to cope.

This is correct. On my outward off peak jour ney earlier that day the Pendolino had its load probably tripled at Coventry, from pleasantly comfortable to crush loaded with standing in the aisles.

 

[DarloRich]

9

By abandoning the whole West Coast service for something happening 170 miles away, the effects are not just on people travelling to London - Virgin have effectively become a commuter service for many people in the North West, and when their trains don't run the remaining local services don't have the capacity to cope.

but the company focus is on restoration of full service as soon as possible. How is that achieved with half the trains pottering about the north west delivering very important Mancunian exiles to their Cheshire homes?

This is correct. On my outward off peak jour ney earlier that day the Pendolino had its load probably tripled at Coventry, from pleasantly comfortable to crush loaded with standing in the aisles.

People in fast train use shocker? I assume you are of the view that people from Coventry should not use Virgin to get to Birmingham. Could you set out which stations it is acceptable for people to travel between on Virgin trains?

 

[Bletchleyite]

People in fast train use shocker? I assume you are of the view that people from Coventry should not use Virgin to get to Birmingham. Could you set out which stations it is acceptable for people to travel between on Virgin trains?

If you apply the German model, people basically would not use[1] InterCity trains to make journeys entirely within the PTE areas.

[1] They aren't barred from doing so, but the PTE tickets are not valid so only a few pay the extra to actually do so.

 

[DarloRich]

If you apply the German model, people basically would not use[1] InterCity trains to make journeys entirely within the PTE areas.

[1] They aren't barred from doing so, but the PTE tickets are not valid so only a few pay the extra to actually do so.

Virgin also offer undercutting tickets on, say, Coventry - Brum advances. That is part of the issue.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Virgin also offer undercutting tickets on, say, Coventry - Brum advances. That is part of the issue.

Yes, there are generally issues with TOCs doing that - the overcrowding on the LM Trent Valley services is also caused by people who would otherwise be using VT being artificially attracted to use LM because it's loads cheaper.

 

[boxy321]

Virgin also offer undercutting tickets on, say, Coventry - Brum advances. That is part of the issue.

I have a 1st class PTE ticket. I'll be damned if I'm using a London Midland stopper to get to Brum and back.

 

[DarloRich]

I have a 1st class PTE ticket. I'll be damned if I'm using a London Midland stopper to get to Brum and back.

I quite agree.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

Looks like it's happened again on the WCML... at Bletchley this time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not again

 

[RJ21]

Yes, all VT services currently cancelled from Manchester Picc, passengers being advised to travel via Leeds for KGX. The announcements here are referencing a 'serious incident' at Bletchley, not actually saying what the incident is but VT on twitter are.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

On a side note, I've just seen London Midland's twitter team called "a bunch of spastics" and "scum, scum, scum" by two different posters. The latter even said he "didn't care" what the reason was for the disruption. I mean... seriously?

 

[Antman]

On a side note, I've just seen London Midland's twitter team called "a bunch of spastics" and "scum, scum, scum" by two different posters. The latter even said he "didn't care" what the reason was for the disruption. I mean... seriously?

I'm afraid that's what you get on social media.