Incident at City Thameslink

[Daniel]

NRE reports emergency services dealing with an incident at City Thameslink.

Southeastern suspended Blackfriars//St Pancras, FCCTL suspended Kentish Town//London Bridge...

Being advertised to the public as electrical supply problems..

 

[philjo]

FCC website was earlier saying that there was a building on fire adjacent to the line between Farringdon & city Thameslink.
The line through City Thameslink station is closed.
FCC are therefore running a split service again : Bedford-St Pancras & London Bridge-Brighton.

 

[Aictos]

No idea but the Thameslink Core's very own Mackenzie Blue will no doubt be along shortly with more details.

 

[jon0844]

I saw lineside fire mentioned, but not anywhere near that station? May have mis-read, was in a rush to get into work.

 

[gordonthemoron]

National Rail website says it's emergency engineering works

 

[Daniel]

National Rail website says it's emergency engineering works

They are now, but the inital incident was reported from FCC as a fire in the City Thameslink area.

 

[EM2]

Could surely be a combination of both?
An earlier fire has caused some problem on the railway e.g. damaged walling, buckled rail, melted cables that needs repairing?

 

[David Sinnett]

We know there's no trains through the core but why only a 4ph frm StP to Bedford and all stops? Another excuse.....

What do FCC have to do to get their franchise pulled?

 

[mackenzie_blu]

We know there's no trains through the core but why only a 4ph frm StP to Bedford and all stops? Another excuse.....

What do FCC have to do to get their franchise pulled?

Because its an emgerncy and just to get some service running they did something rather than sit around and work out if they could do anything else. It was a back up plan that in time when the Core is close they will run 4tph northbound all stations.

Count yourself luck as southbound customers normally get a service a few hours after the northbound is running.

Right back to City Thameslink, due to a fire in the Snow Hill tunnel the service was suspended. City station was closed 0845-1445.

All Im willing to say so far is everything thats been reported above this is correct at some point during the incident but I am not going to say anything at the moment due to an invesigtion going on and I was the one who first spotted it, had a look and started the evac of the station and was there with the Fire Bridge/BTP/NR during the whole incident. Its serious event and the service was suspended to keep everyone safe.

I say this as Ive just spent an hour typing out what happened.

 

[The Box Photter]

Because its an emgerncy and just to get some service running they did something rather than sit around and work out if they could do anything else. It was a back up plan that in time when the Core is close they will run 4tph northbound all stations.

Count yourself luck as southbound customers normally get a service a few hours after the northbound is running.

Right back to City Thameslink, due to a fire in the Snow Hill tunnel the service was suspended. City station was closed 0845-1445.

All Im willing to say so far is everything thats been reported above this is correct at some point during the incident but I am not going to say anything at the moment due to an invesigtion going on and I was the one who first spotted it, had a look and started the evac of the station and was there with the Fire Bridge/BTP/NR during the whole incident. Its serious event and the service was suspended to keep everyone safe.

I say this as Ive just spent an hour typing out what happened.

Good work, safety comes first, but..........

Why do all four trains per hour have to be ALL STATIONS TO BEDFORD?

I took the more civilised option of East Midlands Trains again to Luton Airport Parkway and passed at least 10 units of both 319 and 377 breeds stabled in the sidings at Cricklewood. All stations is not good enough even when the service is split, and FCC apparently had the gall to send some roving RPIs along for the ride on the heavily delayed and crowded stoppers just to make sure no-one was trying to eat into its profit margins.

Could they not have alternated one stopper, one semi-fast as there were surely no issues with potentially frozen points today?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Perhaps because the people at other stations may have wanted to go somewhere fast as well? It's not all about you, you know..

 

[the sniper]

All Im willing to say so far is everything thats been reported above this is correct at some point during the incident but I am not going to say anything at the moment due to an invesigtion going on and I was the one who first spotted it, had a look and started the evac of the station and was there with the Fire Bridge/BTP/NR during the whole incident. Its serious event and the service was suspended to keep everyone safe.

Sounds interesting! hock:

 

[jon0844]

FCC apparently had the gall to send some roving RPIs along for the ride on the heavily delayed and crowded stoppers just to make sure no-one was trying to eat into its profit margins.

Not sure how you could see that from your train, but on the GN side it seems all the staff were out on clearing duties to keep the platforms and stations clean and safe.

Now, as a result of this the gates were open at most stations during the bad weather, so there would actually be the potential for people to travel for free.

And, if the trains are getting crowded due to the emergency timetable then I'm not sure I can understand why you'd think it was a bad thing to have revenue people out, for those people next to you on the train thinking they can travel without paying?

Care to explain your thinking on this?

 

[EM2]

Good work, safety comes first, but..........

Why do all four trains per hour have to be ALL STATIONS TO BEDFORD?

I would guess the reasoning is as follows:
All the customers from all the stations in the core who want to go North are coming to St Pancras. That means there are many more people coming in to the station than there would be normally.
To avoid overcrowding, they need to be got onto a train as quickly as possible.
It therefore makes sense that they can get any available train.
If you have a large number of people waiting for thirty minutes on the platform, you have a very good chance of having to close access to the platform.

 

[David Sinnett]

Fortunately, to Bedford, I have a choice of provider and used EMT last night. We were delayed a little going through Harpenden area as there had been, or was, a points failure, according to the train manager.

I still fail to see why the normal schedule can't be maintained as far as St Pancras with alternate trains coming in to the two platforms thus giving a couple of mins for turnaround.

 

[Aictos]

Not sure how you could see that from your train, but on the GN side it seems all the staff were out on clearing duties to keep the platforms and stations clean and safe.

Exactly, I worked Wednesday afternoon and I had no revenue staff at Hertford apart from the booking office as they were clearing snow away at neighbouring stations.

As to why FCC should have ran a All Stations service alternating with a Semi Fast service, is simply to prevent overcrowding at St Pancras as EM2 has clearly stated above, you might get someone needing to get to Radlett and if they miss the next service, they would have longer to wait for a train to stop there which would increase the chances of overcrowding and the FCC platforms being closed.

Far better to have run All Stations services as regularly as possible then delay passengers more then what is needed just because some passenger wants a faster FCC, if that's the case why not use EMT?

Just seems to be the IN thing to criticised FCC, :roll:

 

[Daniel]

Just seems to be the IN thing to criticised FCC, :roll:

Don't worry mate LU gets it all the time, particularly from the standard

 

[royaloak]

Just seems to be the IN thing to criticised FCC, :roll:

South Easterns turn now by the looks .

 

[87015]

Just seems to be the IN thing to criticised FCC, :roll:

Of course, we should all be singing their praises for the completely wonderful service they have offered for the last few weeks. Obviously.

 

[Aictos]

Of course, we should all be singing their praises for the completely wonderful service they have offered for the last few weeks. Obviously.

:roll:

I'm not referring to that at all but rather some short sighted views on the lack of fast FCCs.

I don't see what the problem was with the 4 hourly All Stations, passengers got home and rather then having to wait around for a train to stop at their destination, they could get the first train which arrived.

A emergency timetable is just that, which allows for a reduction in service but still provide a service.

I can think of more then one reason why the Thameslink has suffered from the past few weeks and it's not all down to FCC either.

Various Class 377 problems
Class 319s being overworked as result of 377 issues and not getting the mods that they need.
Management
Snow

I could go on and on but I'm going to leave it there for now.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Fortunately, to Bedford, I have a choice of provider and used EMT last night. We were delayed a little going through Harpenden area as there had been, or was, a points failure, according to the train manager.

I still fail to see why the normal schedule can't be maintained as far as St Pancras with alternate trains coming in to the two platforms thus giving a couple of mins for turnaround.

Read your post. Normal schedule? You mean a train every 4-5mins in peak? Thats not possible with a station as passengers wouldn't know which platform their trains were going to go from (ie slow and fasts) and even then you have to give them chance to get on the train. Driver changing ends needs a few minutes to get the train ready and contact the signal man to say he's ready to depart and then the signaller can get the road set to depart.

Off peak I know the agurement doesn't stand up but the whole point is keep people on the move. You also have to realise that only one depot is serving the train instead of a mix of three. That alone causing problems with reliefs and drivers finishing at the wrong times. Atleast they tried to get you home, poor loop customers had NOTHING for days and had to get buses/Tube and extend their jounery.

Anyway back to the whole original point, the fire. I can confirm it was the 3rd rail that caused the problem and set something alight. Im hoping to get told what happened next week as NR now know what happened. Repairs were actually done during the evening, and by 2000, completed but a spilt service remain and a few test trains were out through Snow Hill and everything went ok. This lead to todays 50% timetable which was almost all ok.

 

[The Box Photter]

Ralphchadkirk, JohnMorris et al, here's my reasoning, as it always has been....

If the priority is to ease overcrowding on the TL platforms at St Pancras, prioritise the service so that those passengers with NO ALTERNATIVE MEANS OF GETTING HOME have a chance of getting on a train. Tell those passengers with alternative means to use them. FCC loves telling people their tickets will be valid on LU and London Buses as well as SWT and Southern services. None of these are any good if you live north of the M25.

The announcements should go something along the lines of...

"Unfortunately as FCC's trains are made of digestive biscuits and NR's infrastructure is made of cardboard, we are unable to offer a service to stations within the Greater London area. Passengers wishing to travel to Kentish Town, get the Northern Line, passengers for West Hampstead, get the Jubilee Line, passengers for Cricklewood, Hendon & Mill Hill use the superb London Underground network and the fast and frequent interchanging bus routes that will speed them on they way to their home. Do not come to St Pancras. FCC will be operating 4tph service calling at only those stations where we have a complete monopoly on the service to them."

I don't see why during a time of reduced train capacity it is necessary to serve the inner-London stations at all.

I, of course and my fellow cattle have the complete option of an occasional EMT service to Luton or LA Parkway, then the option of an infrequent bus service from Luton to Bedford, then an hourly bus service from Bedford to Flitwick, but not after 6.00pm because Stagecoach can't be arsed to run any services.

Anyone trying to make a case that FCC is trying its best should give up their current job and try a career as a barrister, defending hopeless cases.

The stopping pattern should be Elstree, Radlett, St Albans, Harpenden, LA Parkway, Luton, then all stations to Bedford. It would still be full, but it would have the added benefit of faster turnaround times on the route.

 

[royaloak]

Because FCC have to reach an agreement with the other TOCs about lifting ticket restrictions and the others wont do that unless there is no alternative and in FCCs case there is, the all stations stopper going north and agreements going south.

 

[Daniel]

The announcements should go something along the lines of...

"Unfortunately as FCC's trains are made of digestive biscuits and NR's infrastructure is made of cardboard, we are unable to offer a service to stations within the Greater London area. Passengers wishing to travel to Kentish Town, get the Northern Line, passengers for West Hampstead, get the Jubilee Line, passengers for Cricklewood, Hendon & Mill Hill use the superb London Underground network and the fast and frequent interchanging bus routes that will speed them on they way to their home. Do not come to St Pancras. FCC will be operating 4tph service calling at only those stations where we have a complete monopoly on the service to them."

I will point out that London Underground may be less than pleased if they start getting every single FCC passenger using their services because FCC have decided not to stop at stations near LU stations. The idea of ticket acceptance is to help, not to replace a service.

 

[EM2]

The stopping pattern should be Elstree, Radlett, St Albans, Harpenden, LA Parkway, Luton, then all stations to Bedford. It would still be full, but it would have the added benefit of faster turnaround times on the route.

Except that even with all trains calling at all stations, none of them were full anyway.
So why force them into a crush on LUL when there was space on their FCC trains?

 

[The Box Photter]

Except that even with all trains calling at all stations, none of them were full anyway.
So why force them into a crush on LUL when there was space on their FCC trains?

That's because anyone with any sense who wanted to travel further than Luton and has a season ticket had taken the civilised option of East Midlands Trains. The idea that FCC suddenly has to check with EMT before telling people to use their services is tosh. A season is not restricted to any one operator.

Most commuters have season tickets that include a travelcard or Oyster, therefore their tickets are already valid on LUL and London Buses, and as I have said, SWT and Southern don't yet offer a service to Bedford.

 

[Daniel]

Not everyone has a season ticket, and not everyone has a travelcard.

FCC cannot say 'go and use EMT / LUL' before arranging ticket acceptance, for those passengers without the all mighty season ticket would not be permitted to use those services without prior arrangement.

 

[krus_aragon]

"Unfortunately as FCC's trains are made of digestive biscuits and NR's infrastructure is made of cardboard, we are unable to offer a service..."

Maybe things would work better if they used chocolate-coated digestives. Or even, dare I say it, Wagon Wheels?

 

[Richardr]

Most commuters have season tickets that include a travelcard or Oyster, therefore their tickets are already valid on LUL and London Buses.

What makes you say that? It seems to me that there are plenty of people who get off the FCC route in central London and walk to their place of work - I'm one - and there are plenty of others who just have the extension to Moorgate as part of the transitional arrangements.

There were a couple of extra trains yesterday, making 6 trains between 5:30 and 6:30 from St Pancras.

 

[jon0844]

I have no doubt that FCC would have let you travel on the GN side (just as they do vice versa) and you could have travelled to Hatfield for a bus to St Albans, and possibly taken a train from there northbound.

Or, if they had an easement with EMT, taken that to Luton and maybe come back if necessary.

Or, I don't know if there are still buses from Hitchin to Luton, but if so - that's another way of crossing from one branch to another.

If it had got to the point where they could run no more trains, I also think FCC would have arranged taxis.

It's not as if anyone was going to be left stranded. Due to the bad weather, broken trains (and you've had an explanation about why the 319s weren't able to be 'fixed' to cope better), controls placed upon then by Network Rail etc etc.. I think you're making rather a big deal of the situation when there were options.

In the past, my problem with going to St Albans to get over to Hatfield has been that, if they don't put on buses themselves during the disruption, I have to pay for the bus (or part of it as a I have Plus Bus that covers half the route). In the last few months, they've launched a service where you can travel between St Albans and Hatfield with a rail ticket - and in times of disruption I'd HOPE that this means free travel between the two even without such a ticket.

I'm yet to test this out, but the walk from St Pancras to King's Cross isn't exactly far.