Incident at Banbury

[L&Y Robert]

I overheard this today at 12-00 (5/09/2014):-

"A person has climbed up a signal pole at Banbury Stastion and stabbed himself".

Is this true? Anybody heard anything? Has it stopped traffic?

 

[swj99]

http://www.banburycake.co.uk/news/11473568.Train_delays_after_Banbury__incident_/?ref=rss
http://www.oxfordtimes.co.uk/news/h...mbs_signal_gantry_at_Banbury_station/?ref=rss

THE man who has climbed a signal gantry and closed Banbury Station appeared to be covered in blood, a witness says.

Sarah Jones, 22, was at the station this morning to try and catch a train to Oxford, and saw the man, believed to be in his 20s, on the gantry.

She said: “At about 9.30am I saw a man sat on the pylon. Police were running through the station to try and talk him down.

“I don’t know what he’d done to himself but he was covered in blood.

“He’s wearing a yellow t-shirt and from the neckline to the bottom, right down the middle, was pure red. His hands were all red too.”

 

[The Planner]

Pretty much the case apparently. Was job stopped completely. It looks like some northbound stuff is moving but the people on 1H33 and 1O08 must be a bit narked seeing as they passed Fenny Compton and are 150-160 late and still not got into Banbury.

 

[dvboy]

A friend of mine is on 1H33 (and has been for four hours now), they have ran out of supplies. They can't go forward to Banbury because of the incident. People are talking about opening the doors to let themselves off apparently.

 

[FQ]

Stupid!

Also wrecks my plans for later, We were going to go to Moor street on the 19:28 off Leamington.

 

[dvboy]

1H33 is being put into a "goods area" for passengers to be allowed to alight.

 

[Searle]

Stupid!

Also wrecks my plans for later, We were going to go to Moor street on the 19:28 off Leamington.

I think it's a little insensitive to call someone who has had such a poor life so much that they've had to stab themself, stupid.

 

[91103eastcoast]

It's tragic that someone has had such a poor life they have to stab themselves.

 

[Zoidberg]

It's tragic that someone has had such a poor life they have to stab themselves.

...

... and to take out their frustrations on so many innocent parties.

The authorities in this country are simply not proactive enough in resolving matters like this speedily.

 

[DXMachina]

i think if its a complete stoppage, and on a non-electrified route there should be few objections to passengers walking along the rails to the nearest station either. Let them take one traincrew member as a guide if needs be. Holding people up for several hours in a small train isn't ideal.

In those circumstances I'd have hit the button and decamped within an hour. With or without permission.

 

[sprinterguy]

1H33 is being put into a "goods area" for passengers to be allowed to alight.

At Banbury itself do we know, or is the loading dock at Fenny Compton perhaps being brought into emergency passenger use?

 

[sd0733]

But if the person is between the train and the nearest station then an evacuation can't really happen. Getting a trainload of p*ssed off passengers walking past someone in that condition is likely to lead to somebody/most people saying something to them and can easily put everybody in danger.
I was stuck on a wedged 150 last year for 3 hours outside Bristol due to a similar incident so I know how frustrating it can be.

 

[FQ]

I think it's a little insensitive to call someone who has had such a poor life so much that they've had to stab themself, stupid.

But why do it in a way to disrupt loads of other peoples lives? That is what I was calling stupid.

 

[sprinterguy]

i think if its a complete stoppage, and on a non-electrified route there should be few objections to passengers walking along the rails to the nearest station either. Let them take one traincrew member as a guide if needs be. Holding people up for several hours in a small train isn't ideal.

It could be several miles to the nearest station (which will be Banbury anyway) in this instance. To the nearest access point might be more sensible, but then that raises the complication of arranging onward transport to meet perhaps as many as a couple of hundred passengers at a specified location in a rural area.

 

[DXMachina]

But if the said person is between the train and the station then it can't really happen. Getting a trainload of p*ssed off passengers walking past someone in that condition is likely to lead to somebody/most people saying something and can easily put everybody in danger.

Agreed. I believe the railway firm shoud have a plan of action to lead those passengers as would be willing to walk, to an advantageous exit from the railway system

Expecting people to stay in an under-provisioned train (I assume its a 165/6/70) for so long on a hot day like this is highly likely to lead to exactly the situation you describe - except without the presence of traincrew to keep them away / quiet

Excepting the possibility that the train might be allowed to reverse out, it would be generally better for the passengers to walk along the line in the direction it came from anyway so as to be facing toward anything that might hit them

 

[The Planner]

Which in the case of Fenny Compton to Banbury is basically nowhere, its 8 miles of open countryside with no stations.

 

[FQ]

Which in the case of Fenny Compton to Banbury is basically nowhere, its 8 miles of open countryside with no stations.

Correct, but if no trains are running, send the train back to Leamington.

 

[The Planner]

And do what with it? they were stacked up in a queue. You couldn't do much with them there.

 

[83G/84D]

Correct, but if no trains are running, send the train back to Leamington.

You cannot just send a train back the way it came via a wrong direction move. There may be a train in rear of the one concerned, there may be a level crossing which does not have wrong direction controls and there might not be points or a crossover nearby to cross to the other line.

It is not as simple as it seems when "the job is stopped" unexpectedly like this to have trains stopped in convenient places with stations nearby or diversionary routes available.

I do not condone in any circumstances passengers taking matters into their own hands and evacuating a train without authority. It is potentially reckless as adjacent lines could still be open.

A train evacuation should only be in an emergency and when on train staff say it is safe to do so.

A person who jumped from an HST in West London in the 1990's when smoke entered a carriage was hit and killed by a train on an adjacent line.

I know it is hot, the toilets may be out of order, no food or drink etc but controlled evacuations require staff on site to assist and have to be at a suitable location not just anywhere and have to take place SAFELY.

 

[ushawk]

i think if its a complete stoppage, and on a non-electrified route there should be few objections to passengers walking along the rails to the nearest station either. Let them take one traincrew member as a guide if needs be. Holding people up for several hours in a small train isn't ideal.

In those circumstances I'd have hit the button and decamped within an hour. With or without permission.

In which case, I seriously hope the BTP come to your door and you face prosecution :roll:

There was NO suggestion of how long this was going to last. The area to the North of Banbury where trains were being held was in the middle of no where with large distances between the stations. Where would you have gone ? As a previous post says, Banbury - Fenny Compton is 8 MILES in distance - do you honestly think people would walk 8 miles along a railway line in a very rural area ?

Also, if the man was removed and trains were able to start running again - they wouldnt have been able to as the whole line would have had to been searched.

Trains were being sent back to the nearest stations, but because of the amount of trains in a queue and the speed at which this could happen - this takes time, especially in a situation where it isnt clear when it could end.

The mentality of some people is astonishing. I for one hope the man affected gets as much help as possible, you must be in a bad place or have a mental condition which makes you want to slash yourself whilst trying to electrocute yourself with electrical wires.

 

[83G/84D]

i think if its a complete stoppage, and on a non-electrified route there should be few objections to passengers walking along the rails to the nearest station either. Let them take one traincrew member as a guide if needs be. Holding people up for several hours in a small train isn't ideal.

In those circumstances I'd have hit the button and decamped within an hour. With or without permission.

If you do the above I hope you get prosecuted for trespass by the BTP. If you fall over and break your ankle whilst walking along the ballast in unsuitable footwear are you going to sue Network Rail as well?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

You cannot just send a train back the way it came via a wrong direction move. There may be a train in rear of the one concerned, there may be a level crossing which does not have wrong direction controls and there might not be points or a crossover nearby to cross to the other line.

It is not as simple as it seems when "the job is stopped" unexpectedly like this to have trains stopped in convenient places with stations nearby or diversionary routes available.

I do not condone in any circumstances passengers taking matters into their own hands and evacuating a train without authority. It is potentially reckless as adjacent lines could still be open.

A train evacuation should only be in an emergency and when on train staff say it is safe to do so.

A person who jumped from an HST in West London in the 1990's when smoke entered a carriage was hit and killed by a train on an adjacent line.

I know it is hot, the toilets may be out of order, no food or drink etc but controlled evacuations require staff on site to assist and have to be at a suitable location not just anywhere and have to take place SAFELY.

Specifically speaking at Fenny Compton you can cross over and head back to Leamington Spa. I appreciate this adds little to the wider point you were making, but it was physically possible in that location.

 

[Flamingo]

i think if its a complete stoppage, and on a non-electrified route there should be few objections to passengers walking along the rails to the nearest station either. Let them take one traincrew member as a guide if needs be. Holding people up for several hours in a small train isn't ideal.

In those circumstances I'd have hit the button and decamped within an hour. With or without permission.

There is always one on threads like this. Congratulations, you have won today's prize. It's an all expenses paid trip over Niagra Falls in a barrel. :roll:

 

[Tio Terry]

Perhaps it would be prudent for Network Rail to consider putting Climb Guards on all signals at or close to stations. If they cant be easily climbed in the first place then the problem should be seriously reduced. Of course, in the long run, with ERTMS/ETCS and in cab signalling the problem will sort itself.

 

[E16 Cyclist]

You cannot just send a train back the way it came via a wrong direction move. There may be a train in rear of the one concerned, there may be a level crossing which does not have wrong direction controls and there might not be points or a crossover nearby to cross to the other line.

It is not as simple as it seems when "the job is stopped" unexpectedly like this to have trains stopped in convenient places with stations nearby or diversionary routes available.

I do not condone in any circumstances passengers taking matters into their own hands and evacuating a train without authority. It is potentially reckless as adjacent lines could still be open.

A train evacuation should only be in an emergency and when on train staff say it is safe to do so.

A person who jumped from an HST in West London in the 1990's when smoke entered a carriage was hit and killed by a train on an adjacent line.

I know it is hot, the toilets may be out of order, no food or drink etc but controlled evacuations require staff on site to assist and have to be at a suitable location not just anywhere and have to take place SAFELY.

To a degree there's a case here of damned if you do damned if you don't as this was an incident without a definitive timescale, it could have taken police 5 minutes to talk the guy down in which time you've blocked both lines sending the train back wrong direction or sending a rescue train wrong road from leamington.

 

[Robertj21a]

You cannot just send a train back the way it came via a wrong direction move. There may be a train in rear of the one concerned, there may be a level crossing which does not have wrong direction controls and there might not be points or a crossover nearby to cross to the other line.

It is not as simple as it seems when "the job is stopped" unexpectedly like this to have trains stopped in convenient places with stations nearby or diversionary routes available.

I do not condone in any circumstances passengers taking matters into their own hands and evacuating a train without authority. It is potentially reckless as adjacent lines could still be open.

A train evacuation should only be in an emergency and when on train staff say it is safe to do so.

A person who jumped from an HST in West London in the 1990's when smoke entered a carriage was hit and killed by a train on an adjacent line.

I know it is hot, the toilets may be out of order, no food or drink etc but controlled evacuations require staff on site to assist and have to be at a suitable location not just anywhere and have to take place SAFELY.

But there appears to be no *proper* contingency plan if it takes so long. What happens when it drags on to even more hours without water etc ?

 

[DXMachina]

If you do the above I hope you get prosecuted for trespass by the BTP.

Risk you take. It's my opinion that by refusing any option of accepting a caution, the matter would be dropped before court. And if it wasn't - any moderately eloquent defendant could make the case that their actions were no more unreasonable than those of a railway company that expects to keep passengers effective hostages for several hours during what should have been a short trip.

Juries. Wonderful things...

If you fall over and break your ankle whilst walking along the ballast in unsuitable footwear are you going to sue Network Rail as well?

That would be silly. What I'd expect is a less safety-obsessed and more practical approach. If we assume they dont intend traincrew to take the risk of physically restraining passengers for their own safety, those crew should be able to hypothesise about where a person might successfully get off the railway on foot, and how practical it would be to reach said location. Persoinally I'm the kind of person who always has suitable footwear, but again its an info thing

The current policy wouldnt let people make informed decisions as to how far they had to walk and over what terrain, so people might make poor choices

My whole point though was that by keeping everyone on the train and not providing options, the railway company makes it far more likely that people will take control of their own destiny in ways that are unhelpful. Such positions actually increase the risk to life, even when, as here, intended to reduce it.

The secondary point was theres no way it was acceptable to be stuck out there that long.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

You would probably find that in this case (and I speak from a senior Operations background) - you might have a single manned 600 metre Freightliner train - it is not just a case of slamming into reverse and heading backwards..... like reversing your Twingo in Asda's carpark.

 

[83G/84D]

But there appears to be no *proper* contingency plan if it takes so long. What happens when it drags on to even more hours without water etc ?

It is difficult to have a contingency plan for every eventuality, staff are asked at times to deliver bottled water to stranded trains.
Having been aware of a similar incident to the one mentioned here when I was on duty (but not directly involved in it) I do feel that the decision makers (i.e. Control) could sometimes do better and seek more advice from local staff with operations experience.

This could result in decisions made that result in a better outcome for passengers on stranded trains, as local knowledge may supplement that of a control office possibly hundreds of miles away.

 

[455driver]

In those circumstances I'd have hit the button and decamped within an hour. With or without permission.

And gone where exactly? :roll: