Inadequate gateline ticket checks trapping passengers into penalty payments

[fandroid]

There's a current thread where a passenger bought a wrong date ticket and was let through after a ticket gate rejected it. They then got challenged at the journey end and got hit with a penalty of £116.

There really does need to be proper scrutiny of tickets that gates reject, to protect passengers who have made simple errors or have actually been sold a wrong ticket. In that case, how difficult was it to check the date, as well as ticket type and destination? Pure sloppiness.

Training and discipline in proper ticket checks is something that should be taken extremely seriously. As well as a revenue protection issue, it can often be a customer service issue too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is largely solved by the use of barcoded tickets and a requirement to scan them which would flash up on the device that it wasn't valid if simply by being the wrong day.

 

[fandroid]

In my experience, on SWR, etickets shown at the gate are simply stared at, with no scanning happening. It doesn't help that the only staffed gate is a wide two-way gate with passengers piling up on both sides. The remedy there is to hold passengers back who have had tickets rejected while prioritising those who genuinely need the wide gate and have gone straight to it. More staff would help too!

 

[jamiearmley]

There's a current thread where a passenger bought a wrong date ticket and was let through after a ticket gate rejected it. They then got challenged at the journey end and got hit with a penalty of £116.

There really does need to be proper scrutiny of tickets that gates reject, to protect passengers who have made simple errors or have actually been sold a wrong ticket. In that case, how difficult was it to check the date, as well as ticket type and destination? Pure sloppiness.

Training and discipline in proper ticket checks is something that should be taken extremely seriously. As well as a revenue protection issue, it can often be a customer service issue too.

Completely and utterly agree with this. I spend a disproportionate amount of my working day trying to help passengers who have been let down by a lack of knowledge - or plain laziness - on the part of colleagues they have encountered previous to myself.

There seems to be little appreciation that the actions one takes - or does not take - may place a passenger in a difficult situation later on in their journey if the action is not correct - or if the action is not formalised, by way of an written authority, etc.

A small minority of people seem to be able to cause an great amount of issues for passengers, and it's high time this was taken more seriously.

Regular, formal assessment of ticketing knowledge and application should be a mandatory part of any role which encompasses the checking and selling of travel documentation.

 

[Fermiboson]

Would the staff waving the passenger through the gate not count as permission by a member of staff to travel?

 

[fandroid]

Would the staff waving the passenger through the gate not count as permission by a member of staff to travel?

We have picked this up as grounds for appeal against a Penalty Fare on the thread in question

 

[Sultan]

In my experience, on SWR, etickets shown at the gate are simply stared at, with no scanning happening. It doesn't help that the only staffed gate is a wide two-way gate with passengers piling up on both sides. The remedy there is to hold passengers back who have had tickets rejected while prioritising those who genuinely need the wide gate and have gone straight to it. More staff would help too!

This got me thinking. I travel on SWR and get my tickets via a work portal, receiving the eticket via an email with a link to download to Apple Wallet. I tend to get them a few days before travel. I've not noticed before but the Apple pass shows the ticket as 'Valid Until' the day of travel. Does that infer I could have travelled the day before, or does the date at the top determine it is only valid for that day? It's not an issue - just a question of interpretation of what is shown in the eticket pass.

 

[Bletchleyite]

An Anytime Day Return is only valid for one day (until 0429 the day after printed on it).

 

[Sultan]

An Anytime Day Return is only valid for one day (until 0429 the day after printed on it).

But could it have been used for outward and return the day before?

As for the time, I'll check next time on an unexpired pass. What I see on my attachment doesn't show this (did it ever?)

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'll check next time on an unexpired pass. What I see on my attachment doesn't show this (did it ever?)

What you're seeing is correct. The start date is at the top, the end date is shown, both are the same as it's a day return. The 0429 extension has never been shown on the ticket.

 

[Titfield]

There's a current thread where a passenger bought a wrong date ticket and was let through after a ticket gate rejected it. They then got challenged at the journey end and got hit with a penalty of £116.

There really does need to be proper scrutiny of tickets that gates reject, to protect passengers who have made simple errors or have actually been sold a wrong ticket. In that case, how difficult was it to check the date, as well as ticket type and destination? Pure sloppiness.

Training and discipline in proper ticket checks is something that should be taken extremely seriously. As well as a revenue protection issue, it can often be a customer service issue too.

Whilst undoubtedly some of this is due to sloppiness it is not quite as straightforward and as simple as may first appear.

The example often quoted is that of security staff at airports who scan the baggage as they go through the scanner. It has been proved that even very obvious "nefarious items" can be let through after the member of staff has been on duty for a comparatively short period of time. To reduce this risk the staff change over at very frequent intervals as low I believe as every 45 minutes. Apparently it is due to the way in which the human brain manages activities which are repeated frequently over a short period of time.

 

[Starmill]

Would the staff waving the passenger through the gate not count as permission by a member of staff to travel?

It could, and that would be my view, but unfortunately it's very woolly.

 

[fandroid]

But could it have been used for outward and return the day before?

As for the time, I'll check next time on an unexpired pass. What I see on my attachment doesn't show this (did it ever?)

This is an eticket displayed in Google Wallet. It was bought on 2 Jan but correctly shows the outward journey starting and ending on 3 Jan

 

[furlong]

Even that is misleading as it retains some validity on 4th January! There's no excuse for this - there isn't even any small print! - and there should be something to click on to show full validity information.

 

[Sultan]

So if the e-ticket doesn't include all the information as to when it is valid, how is the ticket inspector supposed to know all the possibly permutations? Many people, for example, don't realise that a Super Off-Peak from Woking to Waterloo (if they still sell them) doesn't permit a return journey that leaves Waterloo between (I think) 4pm and 7pm (please correct me if needed). Whether that is the same for other destinations I don't know.

The instances of 'waving someone through' might happen a lot.

 

[Titfield]

The instances of 'waving someone through' might happen a lot.

I use Waterloo regularly. I have a senior railcard. The barrier rejects my cc type paper ticket frequently (even though it is valid) and I get let through by the member of staff with the merest of glances at my ticket. Only once have I been asked to produce my railcard though I do have it in my hand (in its cover) ready to flip open if requested.

 

[Sultan]

Interestingly, I've just looked at one of the emails I receive from my Work's travel portal (company called TRIPS) and my usual ticket to London Waterloo includes the ability to alight at London Blackfriars, London Charing Cross, London Cannon Street, City Thameslink, London Bridge, London Victoria, Vauxhall, London Waterloo East, London Waterloo.

I've always known about 'London Terminals' and a few of them, but wasn't aware of City Thameslink. Although it is a rather arduous route to get to it - one route says via East Croydon! Some routes say take the underground to Blackfriars - would the ticket actually allow travel between Waterloo and Blackfriars (via Embankment)?

 

[island]

The usual route would be Waterloo/Waterloo East/London Bridge/City Thameslink though I guess you could walk from Waterloo to Blackfriars if you cared to.

 

[Haywain]

I guess you could walk from Waterloo to Blackfriars if you cared to.

Although it would be best not to assume you'll be let through the barriers at Blackfriars.

 

[island]

would the ticket actually allow travel between Waterloo and Blackfriars (via Embankment)?

In the absence of explicit marking to that effect, it will not be accepted by London Underground.

 

[fandroid]

So if the e-ticket doesn't include all the information as to when it is valid, how is the ticket inspector supposed to know all the possibly permutations? Many people, for example, don't realise that a Super Off-Peak from Woking to Waterloo (if they still sell them) doesn't permit a return journey that leaves Waterloo between (I think) 4pm and 7pm (please correct me if needed). Whether that is the same for other destinations I don't know.

The instances of 'waving someone through' might happen a lot.

What were previously Super Offpeak tickets priced by SWR are now either Evening Out or Sunday Out tickets.

As for gateline staff, I think it should be expected that their basic knowledge includes the validity of each ticket type as named, starting with those issued by their own train company. What else has priority over that if their basic role consists of deciding which tickets to let through and which to query further?

 

[Bletchleyite]

What were previously Super Offpeak tickets priced by SWR are now either Evening Out or Sunday Out tickets.

As for gateline staff, I think it should be expected that their basic knowledge includes the validity of each ticket type as named, starting with those issued by their own train company. What else has priority over that if their basic role consists of deciding which tickets to let through and which to query further?

Tickets contain the restriction code which they can easily look up. On a paper ticket it's printed on it, on an e-ticket it's (I think) on the information page so you can call it up and I'm fairly sure tap a link to view it, and presumably would come up on a manual scan.