Improving services in Welsh/English Border counties

[Dr Day]

I’d be interested to hear the views or otherwise of the people who drive the agenda for Midlands Connect and the West Midlands Rail Executive regarding Shropshire and Herefordshire. I’m sure they ( and the relevant councils) make their wishes known to the DfT in representing requirements to the Welsh Govt/TfW?

I’ve often felt that the Hereford to Crewe portion of the line should have a WMT all stations service with TfW doing the regional/express elements and stopping at far fewer places. There are plenty of examples of different operators sharing track to the benefit of passengers.

For me the important question is how will/can we improve services in the English Border counties by taking more control through devolved English bodies and is that desirable? If Glos, Herefordshire, Shropshire and Cheshire are happy with the current settlement then really it seems like doing something for the sake of lines on a map.

I have changed my view somewhat on this over the past few months as we risk delineating too much through political boundaries which could detract from running a network which crosses these boundaries all over the place. In saying that I do think an English Regional structure with properly funded sub national Transport bodies like TfL and TfNorth is desperately needed to combat over centralisation (the UK disease) in GBR.

Split off from another thread, which has got dominated by discussion on Welsh language issues which was only one of the issues originally raised.

Suggest this also covers Gloucestershire and cross-border issues more generally, including funding, fares & ticketing, and track access, eg who should @vicbury be lobbying to get better services in the Gloucester-Cardiff- Bristol triangle?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

eg who should @vicbury be lobbying to get better services in the Gloucester-Cardiff- Bristol triangle?

Who would benefit most from improved services in this area? It's the government for the potential beneficiaries who should be chased.

 

[Dr Day]

Who would benefit most from improved services in this area? It's the government for the potential beneficiaries who should be chased.

People and businesses in Gloucestershire, Monmouthshire and the Bristol area local authorities. Ie both England and Wales, but combined. People in Chepstow (in Wales) want to go to Bristol as much (if not more than) Cardiff, but TfW not unreasonably are focused on intra-Wales travel.

It maybe hasn’t helped the perception of things that TfW the cross-border rail operator and TfW the Welsh-only transport authority share the same name. Most on here agree that the present divvying up of things operationally works well, so maybe part of the answer is simply some change in branding?

 

[Djgr]

People in Chepstow (in Wales) want to go to Bristol as much (if not more than) Cardiff, but TfW not unreasonably are focused on intra-Wales travel.

Has Chepstow ever historically had through services to Bristol? How would this work? Are there spare paths through the Severn tunnel?

 

[SynthD]

People in Chepstow (in Wales) want to go to Bristol as much (if not more than) Cardiff, but TfW not unreasonably are focused on intra-Wales travel.

Maybe it’s chicken and egg, or the attraction of parking at Severn Tunnel Junction, but Cardiff is the top destination from Chepstow at 39k, and Bristol is 4k. https://www.railwaydata.co.uk/odm/gbr/?dest=all&string_out=Chepstow+[3774]

 

[Dr Day]

Has Chepstow ever historically had through services to Bristol? How would this work? Are there spare paths through the Severn tunnel?

Q1 Through direct ? Only via Gloucester when tunnel closed.
Q2 better planned interchange, better buses, mass transit ?
Q3 Not many probably after TfW, open access operators and freight.

But the point that was trying to be made was more around the complexity of institutions that would need to be involved in improving relatively short distance but cross border public transport trips such as Bristol TM area - Chepstow (including by indirect or a mix of modes).

 

[Envoy]

They could extend the Pay As You Go contactless system to Lydney. An off peak day return from Lydney to Cardiff is £15.50 (slightly more for peak) yet contactless at anytime from Chepstow to Cardiff is £7.20 return. Surely, this differential in price v distance encourages people from Lydney to drive to congested Chepstow in order to get the train travel for about half the price - and more traffic is the last thing Chepstow needs?

It appears that TFW are ripping the English off when it comes to fares. For example, Hereford to Birmingham (1 hour 27 minutes) is £25.20 Anytime day return) but Hereford to Cardiff (1 hour) is a whopping £36.30 with TFW. Even the relatively short distance between Hereford and Abergavenny is £17.10 return. (This does nothing but encourage the people of Hereford to go to Birmingham for their bigger city rather than Cardiff). Swansea to Cardiff (about 55 minutes) day return is £14.80 (and a little less if you use TFW trains instead of GWR). So, well under half the price of Hereford to Cardiff for a similar length of trip - although it is a few more miles on the Hereford run v Swansea.

A day Rover ticket should be available for The Marches Line to encourage people to hop on/off and visit the various places along the route such as Abergavenny, Hereford, Leominster, Ludlow, Shrewsbury and Chester. Perhaps TFW have no interest in promoting tourism via the transport system that they provide for The Marches - which if true, is appalling.

The idea that TFW run an all stops electric service between Cardiff and Bristol TM is a good one and makes greater use of the relief lines - especially when the new stations are built.

 

[Djgr]

Split off from another thread, which has got dominated by discussion on Welsh language issues which was only one of the issues originally raised.

Suggest this also covers Gloucestershire and cross-border issues more generally, including funding, fares & ticketing, and track access, eg who should @vicbury be lobbying to get better services in the Gloucester-Cardiff- Bristol triangle?

As an urban outsider, it does appear to me that the towns in this area seem to get a pretty decent service, in the context of their size e.g. Leominster 12k, Church Stretton 4.5k, Lydney 10k.

Perhaps a first step would be to identify what is missing at present and what could be done. These actions need to be tangible, credible and achievable? (e.g. I can't see a service direct from Chepstow to Bristol-reversing at Severn Tunnel Junction?-happening any time soon)

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Maybe it’s chicken and egg, or the attraction of parking at Severn Tunnel Junction, but Cardiff is the top destination from Chepstow at 39k, and Bristol is 4k. https://www.railwaydata.co.uk/odm/gbr/?dest=all&string_out=Chepstow+[3774]

A side issue, but surely to see if there is demand from Chepstow to Bristol, we need to see how much road traffic there is from one to the other?

 

[zwk500]

The idea that TFW run an all stops electric service between Cardiff and Bristol TM is a good one and makes greater use of the relief lines - especially when the new stations are built.

It'll need to be battery-electric or bi-mode if it wants to much further than Patchway! Thankfully TfW do have the Tri-Mode Class 756s so could do so.

 

[Djgr]

A side issue, but surely to see if there is demand from Chepstow to Bristol, we need to see how much road traffic there is from one to the other?

I think this will be true of most of these suggestions.

Looking briefly online, there appear to be two? buses an hour.

As they take 45ish minutes to get into the centre of Bristol, a direct rail service to Temple Meads is going have to get some speed up to be competitive.