IMPORTANT: Safety Rules for Rail Enthusiasts

[AlexS]

Alex S, look down & to the left on oxley viaduct towards wolves in the summertime...........worth straining your neck as there's (well last year) two youngish women who sunbathe in the nip in a garden right below the viaduct almost all day..........AWS horn.....wha what the hell was that....huh....where am I !

Suggestion noted!!

 

[O L Leigh]

I've had it on a 143 before, the train was rolling at less than 5kph I'd guess (so very slow) and the guard opened the doors - he said something like there was an interlock which releases at a slow speed which stops the emergency brake but he wasn't sure.

Could have just been the local door controls which would not be part of the main interlock circuit. Both the Cl315 and Cl455 units had local door control panels in the cab vestibules prior to refurbishment. I'm not certain if it was possible on the Cl315's, but I've certainly seen plenty of Cl455's running around in the height of summer with both crew doors wide open to give the driver a bit of extra cooling.

I believe that it is general practice that the guard hops out at each stop to check that it is clear to release the rest of the doors, so perhaps that is what you saw. However, I drive DOO so perhaps GhostCav will correct any misapprehension.

one TN

 

[voyagerdude220]

he said something like there was an interlock which releases at a slow speed

Does anyone know if this is why the exterior doors on 220/221's make a hissing noise, just as they are coming to a stop? (It happens at a very, very, low speed) After it happens, you can hear the engines from outside alot clearer.

 

[Respite]

On a 150.153,158 & 175 the opening of any door puts the brakes in straight away. The guard can arm the door controls but not press the local door control until the train comes to a stand. I have had a few times when I'm aiming for a real sweet arrival at a station, lovely & smooth until the numpty guard flicks the local door control when we are still doing 5mph & suddenly everyones rammed against the vestibule of my cab as full emergency brake is applied, then they get off & stare at me as if I did it to them .

One TN, yeah the routine is for the guard to await the train to come to a standstill(you cant open the local door whilst moving either), key in the door controls, open the local door (i.e. the one he/she has switched in at), get out & check all doors are on the platform then release all the doors. BTW I didnt realise you did DOO as I'm not really up with what goes on that side of the country. The idea of DOO does not appeal to me whatsoever, our lot don't want it either. Saying that I can't think of any operators around here that do it, maybe murky rail at chester I suppose?
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Does anyone know if this is why the exterior doors on 220/221's make a hissing noise, just as they are coming to a stop? (It happens at a very, very, low speed) After it happens, you can hear the engines from outside alot clearer.

It's probably just something fell off as normal.

Actually it probably is something to do with the guard switching into the door control system ready to open his local door. Or do vulgars have those silly power steps? If so maybe that? hock:

 

[O L Leigh]

I've never known anything other than DOO, so I don't know what I've missed.

TBH, it isn't all that bad. My job is to drive the train so, provided no-one pulls the cord, I don't worry too much about what goes on behind. However, it can be a very lonely place to be knowing that you're probably the only member of staff for miles, and you are vulnerable. Then again even the scrotes want to be someplace, so they tend to leave us alone.

As for the driving, it's a case of pull up to the stop board and give a door release. There's no question of needing to check you're all the way in because the boards should be in the right place to ensure this. Then it's either hang out the window and wait for the doors to clear before shutting up and clearing off, or wait for the tip from the platform staff.

I wouldn't like to give the impression that I think DOO is fine everywhere. It works where I am because the service frequency is high, the distances between stations short and the communications with the Bobby is generally easy. Of course, if you've got to rush off to put down protection or wait for an assisting train the punters are left entirely on their todd which isn't ideal. Then again, I've not been in this situation yet so perhaps it isn't so bad. They ignore everything I tell them anyway so they probably wouldn't even notice I'd gone.

one TN

 

[Guinness]

Does anyone know if this is why the exterior doors on 220/221's make a hissing noise, just as they are coming to a stop? (It happens at a very, very, low speed) After it happens, you can hear the engines from outside alot clearer.

They are the pressure seals. Hissing noises would be them (de)pressurising, automatically does them at low speed. Same mechanisms used on 222s.

 

[AlexS]

Voyagers are DOO trains, the doors are operated by the driver, but the guard instructs him to close them via the 1-2 code on the buzzer system. The keyed in local door also remains open when the rest are closed and the guard closes it with the passenger button, then gives 2.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Voyagers are DOO trains, the doors are operated by the driver, but the guard instructs him to close them via the 1-2 code on the buzzer system. The keyed in local door also remains open when the rest are closed and the guard closes it with the passenger button, then gives 2.

I should know that, as i've done the doors on a Voyager before

 

[Mojo]

One TN, yeah the routine is for the guard to await the train to come to a standstill(you cant open the local door whilst moving either), key in the door controls, open the local door (i.e. the one he/she has switched in at), get out & check all doors are on the platform then release all the doors.

Interesting. Do policies exist across the entire railway or is is just with TOCs?
I don't think I've ever seen a guard do that on FGW local trains (and I'm quite glad tbh, I already think the dwell times on FGW local trains are way too long - see my thread at http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk...d68aba?lnk=st&q=FGW+Run+Late#a36a1aed57d68aba). I ask this question because on London Midland and Crosscountry trains the practice seems to be buzz buzz - buzz buzz before applying power, whereas on FGW local trains we have buzz buzz - power - buzz buzz.

 

[AlexS]

I should know that, as i've done the doors on a Voyager before

Why on earth have you entered the conversation with that remark?

Who cares if you can put a key in a slot and turn it, instant top man!

 

[Respite]

Interesting. Do policies exist across the entire railway or is is just with TOCs?


I ask this question because on London Midland and Crosscountry trains the practice seems to be buzz buzz - buzz buzz before applying power, whereas on FGW local trains we have buzz buzz - power - buzz buzz

Our TOC states buzz buzz- power- buzz buzz.

I think the door drill is universal as per the rule book(maybe, I have enough rules to remember for my own part of the job) for non DOO trains, just that sometimes some may slack off a bit.

I thought vulgars were guard operated doors, thought virmin staff refused DOO rules?

 

[Mojo]

I don't know about West Coast, but on CrossCountry the Train Manager supervises the closing of the doors and gives the door close signal to the driver. There seems to be lots of different practices depending on stock and TOCs.

I think some of the Glasgow Suburban services (are there any others?) operate with Driver Operated Doors where the driver opens and closes the doors and the guard is responsible for commercial duties on the trains and does the usual guard duties in a safety incident. I know many TOCs are trying to extend this to at least a halfway house where the driver opens and guard closes (like on Southern Electro*s).

Of course none of these are true DOO operations which require all sorts of safety features which I am sure one TN or someone else knows about. One that I seem to remember is an "Emergency" button which helped a lot in the Potters Bar incident AFAICR.

 

[O L Leigh]

The ability for the driver to operate the doors does not automatically make certain stock DOO. Quite apart from getting the agreement to operate as such, the driver needs to have a clear view of the entire length of the train in order to safely complete station duties. I'm not entirely familiar with the units in question, but I don't believe that they offer anything even remotely like this sort of view.

Having had a quick turn in a Scud, I was very surprised by the amount of lag between opening the taps and the motor spooling up. Being used to leccies where the power in instantaneous, it seemed like I was sitting there an age just waiting to release the brake. Therefore, just because you hear the driver acknowledging the guard's "right away" by repeating the two on the buzzer before the engine revs up, it doesn't mean that the driver hasn't opened the controller before buzzing back and is just waiting for the motor to respond. Just because you hear the buzzer codes at different times in relation to when the engine spools up it doesn't necessarily mean that there are any differences in driving policy between different operators.

As for worrying about dwell times on FGW local trips, it does seem a trifle petty to pick holes in this when the practice of the guard hopping off first before releasing the doors is a safety requirement.

one TN

 

[Mojo]

As for worrying about dwell times on FGW local trips, it does seem a trifle petty to pick holes in this when the practice of the guard hopping off first before releasing the doors is a safety requirement.

As something I've never seen before so couldn't say either way - perhaps the guard knows unit is platformed as he recognises stopping points on platforms - on the Birmingham CrossCity line there are green lines painted on the platform for this purpose.