Immigration Street

[NLC1072]

Wow.

I've just watched channel fours Immigration Street and I can't believe how hostile it was there! I can understand why they chose Derby Street with the diverse demographic and it started off as a basic documentary about immigrants lives in the UK - all was well and they were entitled to be able to do that, especially in public areas - I thought it was pretty balanced.

Then come the swathes of people who were not agreeable with the film and were happy to physically hurt anybody even associated with them - throwing missiles and other nasties to deliberately harm people.

What sort of a place do we live in, has society here really declined that much? It seems like a topic that is not allowed to be discussed in our society at all costs - the "politically correct" way, which is not necessarily the right way. If there is a problem it needs to be discussed properly and not one side just bullying the other.

Even at the "meeting" they had, it was certainly not a meeting - it was just a chance to shout them down - and the Labour MP and their councillors were joining in - that's not right surely! (shouldn't they listen to everybody as they are a representative of the local people as a whole?).

Anyway that's my rant over, what did you think?

NLC1072.

 

[ExRes]

Personally I would never waste my time watching rubbish like Immigration Street, TV is bad enough, Channel 4 TV is not worth consideration

Show the majority of people a TV camera and they will simply perform their best version of brainless stupidity, if you believe what you see then you're on the slippery slope

 

[scott118]

Even at the "meeting" they had, it was certainly not a meeting - it was just a chance to shout them down - and the Labour MP and their councillors were joining in - that's not right surely! (shouldn't they listen to everybody as they are a representative of the local people as a whole?).

Democracy falls down at the point where you have to persuade stupid people to vote for you......

 

[muz379]

Personally I would never waste my time watching rubbish like Immigration Street, TV is bad enough, Channel 4 TV is not worth consideration

Show the majority of people a TV camera and they will simply perform their best version of brainless stupidity, if you believe what you see then you're on the slippery slope

indeed I tend to take programs like these with a pinch of salt . People act up for the cameras and all you are seeing in the hour or so that the program is on is the most extreme edit of 3 or 4 weeks or however long it was the production crew went and filmed .

 

[Searle]

It's all staged, please don't believe anything on it. The country is not full, the majority of immigrants contribute well to society and we would be a lot worse off without them.

 

[Mojo]

I saw the trailer for it and searched for some of the history behind the opposition, much from the locals but also lots from the left. Makes you wonder what the people against the programme are trying to hide.

 

[Antman]

It's all staged, please don't believe anything on it. The country is not full, the majority of immigrants contribute well to society and we would be a lot worse off without them.

Oh really?

I haven't seen the programme but some people are clearly happy to dismiss anything they don't agree with:roll:

 

[NLC1072]

I saw the trailer for it and searched for some of the history behind the opposition, much from the locals but also lots from the left. Makes you wonder what the people against the programme are trying to hide.

That was my thought too.

Also if C4 couldn't get negative footage (i.e. if the locals behaved and didn't provide it) then they wouldn't of had anything to worry about!

My fear is that it actually screened an accurate representation of Derby Road.

Scratch that... I found what they were most likely trying to hide in this link;

Be warned it isn't nice reading.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/immigration-street-five-men-arrested-5004064

 

[Searle]

It's all staged, please don't believe anything on it. The country is not full, the majority of immigrants contribute well to society and we would be a lot worse off without them.

Oh really?

I haven't seen the programme but some people are clearly happy to dismiss anything they don't agree with:roll:

Lmfao dismissing anything I don't agree with? This is a ridiculous channel 4 program that was made to wind people like the OP up.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Lmfao dismissing anything I don't agree with? This is a ridiculous channel 4 program that was made to wind people like the OP up.

Yeah, it's not like there's a growing anti-immigration sentiment in the country and Channel 4 could make a killing off or anything, is there?

Saying "if you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear" is an absolutely ridiculous claim. I'd object to people filming on my street about me, just as I'm sure many of you would.

It's terrifying the kinds of things people will support and think they're still being "neutral".

 

[Antman]

Lmfao dismissing anything I don't agree with? This is a ridiculous channel 4 program that was made to wind people like the OP up.

I was thinking more of you're worse off without them claim

 

[zuriblue]

Well the programme is being made by the same people that made Benefits Street and that programme did have a great deal of selective editing and sensationalism. I'd be very wary of a programme like that. (same as I take the claims about immigration coming from the Mail and the Express with a pinch of salt approximately the size of Runcorn)

Also if C4 couldn't get negative footage (i.e. if the locals behaved and didn't provide it) then they wouldn't of had anything to worry about!

But we don't know what ended up on the cutting room floor. Things like this love to accentuate the negative, firstly because negative sells and secondly because the programme is being put out from a right wing perspective and right wingers do love to play the victim.

 

[TheKnightWho]

I was thinking more of you're worse off without them claim

Immigrants provide a net economic benefit to the country - that's indisputable. Even UKIP have started admitting that.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I didn't watch Benefits Street because I knew it would be sensationalist nonsense, and I didn't watch Immigrants Street because I knew it would be sensationalist nonsense.

It is incredibly easy to manipulate even supposedly savvy and "educated" people into doing foolish things (as the "Fake Sheikh" proved for years), and if they don't there's always the edit. As with shows like Jeremy Kyle, they always choose people who are "naive" or vulnerable and make them look bad for entertainment.

 

[Clip]

It's all staged, please don't believe anything on it. The country is not full, the majority of immigrants contribute well to society and we would be a lot worse off without them.

Did you watch it then? Do you know Derby Road in Southampton and the people that live there?

If the answer is no to any of those 3 questions then you cant really comment or make a decision on whether the programme is staged and we shouldnt believe anything on it.

 

[Mojo]

I didn't see anything on the programme that could possibly have lead me to believe that immigration was a bad thing. I am more inclined to believe it is a bad thing because I am wondering what on earth the opposition were trying to cover up! Most of the problems seemed to be caused by the British.

 

[SS4]

I didn't watch Benefits Street because I knew it would be sensationalist nonsense, and I didn't watch Immigrants Street because I knew it would be sensationalist nonsense.

It is incredibly easy to manipulate even supposedly savvy and "educated" people into doing foolish things (as the "Fake Sheikh" proved for years), and if they don't there's always the edit. As with shows like Jeremy Kyle, they always choose people who are "naive" or vulnerable and make them look bad for entertainment.

Yet people fall for it time and time again. I have very little doubt that the production team was told the outcome they must portray. Anti immigration sentiment is on the rise and channel 4 thought they could make a quick buck

 

[muz379]

Wow.

I've just watched channel fours Immigration Street and I can't believe how hostile it was there! I can understand why they chose Derby Street with the diverse demographic and it started off as a basic documentary about immigrants lives in the UK - all was well and they were entitled to be able to do that, especially in public areas - I thought it was pretty balanced.

Ive just watched the program earlier today mainly curiosity because a lot of people are talking about it .

The first 15 minutes or so of the program was them interviewing various residents off the street and all in all I agree that it was relatively balanced and the negativity I saw was actually targeted at indigenous people with at least 3 immigrants commenting on English workers being lazy or seeing certain work as below them . During the first 20 minutes of watching I wondered what all the talk was about . Of course that is probably a case of retrospective editing to try and dispel the anger .

Then the journalists from the rest of the press turned up . and the labor councilor and MP where perpetuating the anger against the production team because they presumed that the use of the word Immigrant in the title was negative .

This program has raised an interesting point about how loaded the term "immigrant" has become . Factually it just describes someone who comes to live in a country that is not their country of origin . But because of its negative use by the press and some other groups it has now become a term you cant use without being negative .

 

[Antman]

Immigrants provide a net economic benefit to the country - that's indisputable. Even UKIP have started admitting that.

It's also indisputable that they're driving wages down and house prices up

 

[NSEFAN]

Surely it is the richest who drive wages down and house prices up? After all, they are the ones who "create jobs" and own vast numbers of houses purely for investment purposes.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It's also indisputable that they're driving wages down and house prices up

Is it really?

I would say that the people who control the size of the marketplace are the ones driving wages down and house prices up. The people who control the size of the market control the cost of that market; see de Beers or OPEC for examples.

This applies whether you're a Marxist or a Social Darwinist.

 

[ExRes]

But surely anyone coming from a country where £4 an hour is acceptable, and accepting £4 an hour here, is going to drive wages down here regardless of who they are employed by

 

[muz379]

But surely anyone coming from a country where £4 an hour is acceptable, and accepting £4 an hour here, is going to drive wages down here regardless of who they are employed by

I think this is certainly happening in certain industries and with certain trades where employers are willing to break the law and pay workers less than the minimum wage . And employees are happy to accept that because the wage is still comparable or better than what they would get in their country of origin .

However in other industries I think that many immigrants are doing jobs that the indigenous population are unwilling to do for a range of different reasons .

I used to work for a nationwide retailer and in the handful of stores I worked in the workforce had an overrepresented number of immigrants from Europe and further afield . Id say 60%-70% of that workforce was made up of migrants . Given that there is no financial incentive to employ immigrants becausethe company complied with the NMW and in fact paid slightly above the minimum wage . Also given that some of the migrant workers had English as a second language communication difficulties did present themselves . why would this employer recruit a migrant worker over an indigenous person ? Was it that they thought migrants would work harder . Or was it because not as many British workers applied for the jobs for various reasons ?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

It's the bosses that set the salary. Perhaps if they weren't all so eager to offer low or illegal wages there wouldn't be a problem?

 

[ExRes]

It's the bosses that set the salary. Perhaps if they weren't all so eager to offer low or illegal wages there wouldn't be a problem?

Employers can offer whatever they like, it's the employee who accepts or declines the offer, would you accept £4 an hour ?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Employers can offer whatever they like, it's the employee who accepts or declines the offer, would you accept £4 an hour ?

No, because it would be illegal.

Employers can offer what they like, employees can accept what they like. Your argument simply makes no sense if you don't equally condemn the employers as well as the employees.

 

[Antman]

No, because it would be illegal.

Employers can offer what they like, employees can accept what they like. Your argument simply makes no sense if you don't equally condemn the employers as well as the employees.

It is irrelevant whether you condemn the employer or not, the simple fact in that all the time there are people willing to work for a pittance then things are not going to improve. Look at how many zero hours contracts there are, it's just slavery.

 

[ExRes]

No, because it would be illegal.

Employers can offer what they like, employees can accept what they like. Your argument simply makes no sense if you don't equally condemn the employers as well as the employees.

You think that legality makes any difference to those employers that offer low wages or those employees that are prepared to accept them ?

Did I condemn the employees ?, if I did could you quote me as I seem to have missed it, I recall writing "... it's the employee who accepts or declines the offer ...", hardly what I'd call a condemnation

Just as an aside, I used £4 per hour as an out of the air example, not from reference to anything quoted anywhere else

 

[Oswyntail]

It is irrelevant whether you condemn the employer or not, the simple fact in that all the time there are people willing to work for a pittance then things are not going to improve. Look at how many zero hours contracts there are, it's just slavery.

There are so many factors in play here, one cannot make such statements. For instance, it is possible that people choose low paid work because it gives them all the income they require , without the hassle of a higher paid role. There is a myth that everyone needs more money, and getting that is a strong motivator. Basically, any employer will pay the lowest remuneration at which she can get a consistent supply of workers of sufficient quality to carry out the tasks; if training is a significant cost, the need to retain the workforce would tend to raise the level of remuneration. Employers are not, and should not be, in the business of charity, welfare or social engineering.

 

[muz379]

It is irrelevant whether you condemn the employer or not, the simple fact in that all the time there are people willing to work for a pittance then things are not going to improve. Look at how many zero hours contracts there are, it's just slavery.

but surely if you want things to improve you should condemn the employer then . And on a more practical note given that our condemnation on a forum for railway enthusiasts means nothing in the grand scheme of things we should make efforts to pursue legal action against employers who do offer employees below the minimum wage .