The whole 15 minutes? King's Lynn services get about 5 minutes at Cambridge. Surely the Class 158 coupling procedure can't take that long.
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Ilkeston services
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The whole 15 minutes? King's Lynn services get about 5 minutes at Cambridge. Surely the Class 158 coupling procedure can't take that long.
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I think an hourly service off peak throughout the day will be adequate. I know that it would be useful to have a more regular later service from Nottingham in the evenings but I think the main failing is the poor service to/from Nottingham at peak times. One train an hour with so few arrivals in Nottingham before 9am is hardly enough to encourage lots of people to leave their cars at home or stop using the buses.
70014IronDuke
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I doubt there are the paths, and I assume there is the no spare stock (and never will be) but an extra couple of Nottingham - Liverpool (or perhaps just Manchester Picc) trains and v v in the peaks running via Dore south and avoiding Sheffield would surely be useful, and still quicker than the standard service even if they did call at Ilkeston and Langley Mill, unlike the regular EMT service.
One of my colleagues looked into it, looked at the timetable then realised that for a 09:00 start (in the city centre) she'd have to leave home 30 minutes earlier than driving in / catching NET at Phoenix Park and gave up on the idea. The cost would however work out cheaper than the petrol / petrol + tram so a train getting in 15/20 minutes before 09:00 could be a winner!
a_c_skinner
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This isn't a criticism of DarloRich of course, who always posts politely and sensibly and interestingly. Isn't that exactly what the problem is with the railways? A general ability to have a "can't do" outlook pervades discussions on here and seems part of the railway culture. I do know a little of how complex any solution might be, especially as the dead hand of franchising is lifted only at renewal/reletting times and between that total ossification.
Another problem on here is of course people like me forgetting other solutions mind you. P&R from Phoenix Park postdates my tiresome trips daily into Nottingham. Nearly as bad as motorists forgetting petrol is about half their mileage costs when driving from Ilson to Cinderhill for a tram.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
The problem with trains out of Nottingham in the evening being HSTs applies in reverse in the morning, with the HSTs from Neville Hill filtering in to provide the off-peak service between Nottingham and London. One of them is the 0823 arrival into Nottingham, which would otherwise be just about perfect for commuters.
This will probably cease to happen after electrification (but Langley Mill and Alfreton will lose their London services) but who knows when that will be? The rolling stock strategy of the successor franchise might allow a commuter working by, for instance, running some of the Norwich 158s north of Nottingham earlier/later in the day or getting some new units with SDO.
This will probably cease to happen after electrification (but Langley Mill and Alfreton will lose their London services) but who knows when that will be? The rolling stock strategy of the successor franchise might allow a commuter working by, for instance, running some of the Norwich 158s north of Nottingham earlier/later in the day or getting some new units with SDO.
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bunnahabhain
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Unfortunately the first two Norwich services via Grantham (1L03/04) start on the Robin Hood Line and are both at capacity into Nottingham. So there is no extra stock for an additional from the Wash.
Is there a suitable point to reverse near Ilkeston? All it would take is a 153 to run a shuttle if so. It's less than a 15 minute trip. Are there any times when a unit is waiting at Nottingham for about 35 minutes? Any units that go to bed early evening that could have a return to Ilkeston tacked on? It wouldn't need to be peak, but it would help to plug some of the gaps. There may be a minute here or a minute there that could allow one or two extra Liverpool services to call as demand stars to ramp up. It would probably be a bit ridiculous, but could a morning Nottingham to St Pancras Meridian start back from Ilkeston and vv? Could the morning Derby to Sheffield Meridian be rerouted to go via Ilkeston? Or would that add too much time?
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Most of the 15 minutes is really for pathing purposes. The actual coupling only takes a few. Technically, one could eaily arrive later/depart earlier at Nottingham by a couple of minutes and still have plenty of time for the split/join.
But by putting an Ilkeston stop in every Liverpool-Norwich, you're slowing down valuable Nottingham-Sheffield/Manchester/Liverpool journeys for the benefit of a few low-value local fares between Ilkeston and Nottingham. Plus if it proves popular, you're crowding out a long distance/interurban service with local passengers - the very thing people moan about operators like (for example) XC for.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Off the top of my head, there isn't a crossover until the junction where the Mansfield line diverges, which would push the out and back time up to nearly an hour. If they'd built a third platform face at Ilkeston then a shuttle could perhaps have reversed on the reversible slow line.
Class 170101
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SDO on HSTs could be retro-fitted. Ask Great Western who already do it.
As for Grandfather Rights certainly not here but unless I'm mistaken there aren't any at East Midlands Parkway either and HSTs stop there so why not at Ilkeston?
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Nothing has been done to modify the HSTs to meet the 2020 accessibility deadline. It is presumably down to the new franchise to decide whether to do this or replace them, although they time to do so will be vary short. It is unlikely any costly mods would be done in the meantime.
HSTs normally use the Fast line platforms at East Midlands Parkway which are long enough for them. I believe there is some sort of derogation to use the shorter Slow line platforms on an occasional basis. I don't know what conditions are placed on this derogation, but something similar might not be workable for stopping at Ilkeston every day.
Class 170101
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Well only looking at the 19:32 St Pancras to Leeds unless Northern could provide a later service from Nottingham at 22:14 or perhaps EMT provide a service to Sheffield using the Skegness unit as suggested above.
Would only happen once daily anyway.
Would only happen once daily anyway.
Kneedown
Established Member
If you mean the last arrival from Skeg, it already forms the 23.XX to Leicester or Derby, I forget which.
I believe as part of the Northern December 2017 Train Service Requirement they have to provide more trains in the evening. I think its 2 trains after 10pm, although one of which only has to call at Chesterfield, Dronfield and Sheffield.
bradders1983
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Leicester.
The arrival from Spalding gets into Nottingham a minute later, they could always extend that but doubt it will happen.
Does anyone have any experience of numbers using the peak time services during the first week? I would expect Off Peak services to be well used with it being a new station opened at the beginning of the school Easter Holidays.
It's been almost 3 months now since Ilkeston Station opened but no further posts in this thread. Does anyone have any information on the number of passengers using the station. Is it being well used?
I passed by yesterday early evening, at about 6pm, and I know it was a Sunday but as far as I could see there was not one single car in the car park.
I passed by yesterday early evening, at about 6pm, and I know it was a Sunday but as far as I could see there was not one single car in the car park.
RichmondCommu
Established Member
Whats the service like on a Sunday? Was there anything interesting happening in Nottingham that day? If there was and there were not any cars in the car park then I would be worried.
I know that 6pm on a Sunday would not be a busy time at a station like Ilkeston and I wouldn't expect to see many cars in the car park at that time. It was just an observation that there were none and I wondered how well the station is being used in general.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
One passenger at Ilkeston boarding the 0746 Nottingham-Liverpool yesterday. I was on one of the EMT stoppers around lunchtime a few weeks back, four boarding I think.
I called there on a Leeds to Nottingham service a couple of weeks back on a Saturday lunch, nobody got on or off. The train I caught on the way back in the evening did not stop there but the stopper was only a few minutes behind, nobody waiting on the platform.
When I first called there shortly after it opened thee were a couple of people awaiting a train, the car park was fairly empty, though again I think this was a weekend.
When I first called there shortly after it opened thee were a couple of people awaiting a train, the car park was fairly empty, though again I think this was a weekend.
CaptainHaddock
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From what I've seen, passenger numbers have been reasonable but perhaps not as high as they could be to and from Ilkeston.
Possible reasons are that the station is a fair way out of the town centre and bus services are fairly good in the area; if you're going to Derby for example, a direct bus from the town centre will be far quicker than a walk to the station and two trains.
The new station and the frequency of service doesn't seem to have been that well publicised either. When I was in the Dewdrop Inn by the station shortly after it opened, a couple of locals at the bar were telling everyone that there were only 3 trains a day running from the new station so what was the point in reopening it? I think they'd got hold of an EMT timetable and didn't realise Northern are also running hourly services.
TheBigD
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ilkestonian
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I suspect that this is key issue. Many Ilkestonians work in Nottingham, and even though Trent provide a superb service locally, especially the frequent and quick direct service, the congestion means that rush hour journeys are a nightmare.
Decently timed trains would, I'm sure, be very popular but for obvious reasons the needs of local passengers to or from Ilkeston do not weigh very heavily in the bigger picture of the timing of the services which serve the station.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
As I may have mentioned upthread somewhere, the intervening EMT service is an HST so unable to stop at Ilkeston. This situation may resolve in a few years time by one or more of:
- Replacement of the HSTs by something that has SDO
- Successor franchise running its morning southbound Sheffield-Nottinghams as DMUs instead, possibly as a consequence of no longer basing anything at Leeds.
- Some sort of timetable recast, probably driven by platform occupancy at St Pancras, that involves pushing the Northern trains round the clock to a time that is more helpful to Ilkeston.
Sorry to drag this thread back up but people were asking about usage this was on East Midlands Trains Facebook page
So EMT are saying 30,000 people have used the station since it opened.
Join us for an Ilkeston station celebration event on Thursday. Our shiniest new station opened in April and has welcomed 30,000 passengers since then. At the event, there will be stalls at the station from 2pm. Wonder if the Ilson Gnomemight make an appearance?
*Free ice-creams (first-comes-first-served)
*School children station adopters will be there demonstrating their green-fingered gardening skills
* British Transport Police will be there with police vehicles and some of our partners from the world of canals, rivers, rail and keep fit.
So EMT are saying 30,000 people have used the station since it opened.
70014IronDuke
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Please do not apologise - such news/update is welcome by me, and I assume I'm not alone.
So presumably that makes it roughly 10,000 per month. Extrapolating that, it comes to 120,000 per year. Is that in line with original projections, does anyone know?
There was a BBC News report in 2010 that quoted an estimated usage of 120,000 journeys per year
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/derbyshire/8469792.stm
dk1
Veteran Member
You most definitely are not good sir. I'm very interested to follow the new developments.
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