Ilfracombe Branch Revival

[CarltonA]

http://www.northdevongazette.co.uk/news/bid_to_set_up_ilfracombe_heritage_railway_1_4370793

The Combe Rail group now has registered charity status and is accepting membership subscriptions.

The group wants to set up a community and heritage railway on the track bed of the former Barnstaple-Ilfracombe railway.

The Ilfracombe branch line closed in 1970, but the charity believes getting it back would be a great boost for local tourism.

The line, which is now part of the Tarka Trail, opened in 1874 and in its heyday brought thousands of tourists to Ilfracombe.

Richard Heacock, from the charity, said people joining the group would show the authorities and funding bodies that the project enjoyed popular local support.

“Members will be entitled to attend and vote at the AGM, and funds are initially required for scoping and environmental studies.....

It seems there is another attempt to resurrect the Ilfracombe line. One previous project failed miserably in the early 70s. I can't see any possibility of the "iron bridge" at Barnstaple being rebuilt, though the foundations are visible at low tide. The town station is still standing in Barnstaple but the Ilfracombe station site is lost under a supermarket I think. I don't expect much will come of "Combe Rail" but who knows. A photo of "a D812 train" on the link makes it worth a click anyway.

 

[sprinterguy]

Based on another news story on their website, I don't think the group have much intention of rebuilding the bridge over the River Taw at the present time. Their initial ambitions are far less grandiose and potentially more achievable, in looking to initially develop a short central section of the former route:

http://www.combe-rail.org.uk/press/
http://www.northdevonjournal.co.uk/...tory-26281013-detail/story.html#ixzz3Xa1dsJfi
Combe Rail was founded last month in a bid to try and establish a heritage railway on a section of the former line between the two towns. Although large parts of the route have been subject to development following its closure in 1970, the group said it would focus on establishing the railway on a four-mile stretch between Willingcott and Knowle.

”There’s lots of bits of the line which aren’t accessible to us, and we know that,”...“Combe Rail don’t want to encroach on anybody’s private property or business interest. We just want to establish a heritage railway.”

 

[Greenback]

I agree that the difficulties involved in reinstating the entire line are too much at the present time. They aren't insurmountable, a way can usually be found, but it's simply far too expensive to rebuild bridges, find new formations when the old one is built over, and so forth.

I don't think that the line should ever have closed, but that doesn't mean it will be easy, or even possible to put it back, but a shorter line might have a chance.

 

[A0]

http://www.northdevongazette.co.uk/news/bid_to_set_up_ilfracombe_heritage_railway_1_4370793

It seems there is another attempt to resurrect the Ilfracombe line. One previous project failed miserably in the early 70s. I can't see any possibility of the "iron bridge" at Barnstaple being rebuilt, though the foundations are visible at low tide. The town station is still standing in Barnstaple but the Ilfracombe station site is lost under a supermarket I think. I don't expect much will come of "Combe Rail" but who knows. A photo of "a D812 train" on the link makes it work a click anyway.

Given how many "marginal" heritage railways there are - not sure another one is really what's needed - particularly as you point out, some pretty key infrastructure is missing - add to that you've got the L&B and WSR close at hand as well.

I think some of these schemes need to look again at what is really viable - potentially looking at narrow gauge rather than trying to do standard gauge. Cost wise it's much easier, it takes up less space and there are far more sources of rolling stock etc.

 

[Greenback]

As north Devon is still a popular area for holidays and short breaks, there could easily be room for another heritage line there.

 

[455driver]

As north Devon is still a popular area for holidays and short breaks, there could easily be room for another heritage line there.

Are there enough volunteers to establish and run another heritage line though?
Its usually the lack of reliable manpower that kills these schemes off!

 

[A0]

As north Devon is still a popular area for holidays and short breaks, there could easily be room for another heritage line there.

But at what cost to each other?

Taking a quick look on-line a family ticket on the WSR is £ 50 - that's hardly a cheap day out even now.

Railways which are still trying to establish themselves tend not to be that cheap and don't offer a huge amount in terms of attraction - and it takes many years to establish a viable line - look at some of the other attempts on standard gauge lines - the Dunstable one, or the one in the Mold area - neither came to fruition. Lines such as the Northampton & Lamport have had nearly 30 years yet are still struggling - that's why I'm questioning the wisdom of pursuing standard gauge. It's a bit different if some of the track is still there - lines such as the MNR have seen that benefit and have been able to offer a viable tourist offering fairly quickly - but to start from scratch is a very different proposition.

 

[fgwrich]

But at what cost to each other?

Taking a quick look on-line a family ticket on the WSR is £ 50 - that's hardly a cheap day out even now.

Railways which are still trying to establish themselves tend not to be that cheap and don't offer a huge amount in terms of attraction - and it takes many years to establish a viable line - look at some of the other attempts on standard gauge lines - the Dunstable one, or the one in the Mold area - neither came to fruition. Lines such as the Northampton & Lamport have had nearly 30 years yet are still struggling - that's why I'm questioning the wisdom of pursuing standard gauge. It's a bit different if some of the track is still there - lines such as the MNR have seen that benefit and have been able to offer a viable tourist offering fairly quickly - but to start from scratch is a very different proposition.

Are there enough volunteers to establish and run another heritage line though?
Its usually the lack of reliable manpower that kills these schemes off!

I've got to agree with these two statements I'm afraid, with the major problem being that of a lack of manpower and funds. And I say that with two preservation projects already in existence in North Devon in mind - What has happened to that of the group at Bideford station? Or that of the group further down the line at Torrington? Both have been in existence for some notable years now with unfortunately very little progress or signs of movement from either end.

I don't really wish to put a downer on any preservation attempt or project - and I'm glad that this new lot don't see the reopening of Barnstaple to Ilfracombe ever likely - The area around Barnstaple station has been redeveloped so a route through there would be tight, Barnstaple Town Centre itself has also been developed since the closure - more possible but rather unlikely id have thought, The trackbed through Braunton has been long developed so any railway would have to avoid that, North of Braunton upwards is reasonably clear - largely thanks to most of the trackbeds use as a cycle path. Some development has happened to the former station site at Morthoe & Woolacombe including a pub and (I think it has since closed) a theme park, while the former station site - situated very high above the town itself - at Ilfracombe is now manufacturing facility for PALL Industries (Medicinal Products). But I do have to wonder how easy it would be, or viable for that matter, for another preservation attempt with standard gauge track within North Devon.

Had a large proportion of the lines remained in existence already, as pointed out above by A0wen, then I'm sure it would easily be a different matter. I've cycled Barnstaple to Torrington and it's a beautiful line. I actually feel that keeping the line to Bideford should have been the case than cutting it back to Barnstaple, but that's a different story. I also wonder how differently towns like Ilfracombe would fare if a line had remained open, with stations like Braunton - for Croyde, or Morthoe & Woolacombe - Very handy for anyone who surfs like me, if the line was in existence to this day. Of course it would have also required the Barnstaple Branch not to have been rationalized, turning it from the former Mainline to the West to a 30 odd mile long branch line.

 

[Greenback]

Are there enough volunteers to establish and run another heritage line though?
Its usually the lack of reliable manpower that kills these schemes off!

That's very true.

But at what cost to each other?

Taking a quick look on-line a family ticket on the WSR is £ 50 - that's hardly a cheap day out even now.

That's why there might, and I deliberately say might, easily be room for another option, especially if it's smaller in scale and offers a cheaper or different option to an operation like the WSR.

Railways which are still trying to establish themselves tend not to be that cheap and don't offer a huge amount in terms of attraction

That's also a fair point. It could just as easily be that this comes to nothing at all, but I wouldn't want to be so negative as to discourage people from trying.

Lines such as the Northampton & Lamport have had nearly 30 years yet are still struggling - that's why I'm questioning the wisdom of pursuing standard gauge. It's a bit different if some of the track is still there - lines such as the MNR have seen that benefit and have been able to offer a viable tourist offering fairly quickly - but to start from scratch is a very different proposition.

The main thing for me is that some line struggle because of economic reasons, some struggle because of the motivation of those behind them is to just play trains and not to be serious about running a proper heritage railway. Some of the local efforts near to me fall under the latter category, so perhaps my view is a little skewed by that as they do sometimes claim to be the victim of economic forces whereas I believe that it's more to do with a lack of real interest.

I think that it;s a case of wait and see really. I have no objection at all to the realities of the struggle being put forward, but if the people behind the revival are serious, I don't see why they shouldn't give it a real go.

Had a large proportion of the lines remained in existence already, as pointed out above by A0wen, then I'm sure it would easily be a different matter. I've cycled Barnstaple to Torrington and it's a beautiful line. I actually feel that keeping the line to Bideford should have been the case than cutting it back to Barnstaple, but that's a different story. I also wonder how differently towns like Ilfracombe would fare if a line had remained open, with stations like Braunton - for Croyde, or Morthoe & Woolacombe - Very handy for anyone who surfs like me, if the line was in existence to this day. Of course it would have also required the Barnstaple Branch not to have been rationalized, turning it from the former Mainline to the West to a 30 odd mile long branch line.

If the line had been able to survive for another decade, I'm convinced it would still be with us today. No doubt heavily rationalised and perhaps with a service like the Cambrian Coast.

There's no chance of it all being put back as a heritage operation in my view. But I don't think that competition with the WSR is a valid reason for not going ahead if the will is there and the resources can be found. but those are tow very big 'if's'!

 

[DelW]

I also wonder how differently towns like Ilfracombe would fare if a line had remained open, with stations like Braunton - for Croyde, or Morthoe & Woolacombe - Very handy for anyone who surfs like me, if the line was in existence to this day.

Surely one of the reasons for closure was that it wasn't convenient for Croyde, Mortehoe or even Ilfracombe itself. Once past Braunton the line was up on the hills a couple of miles inland, and even at Ilfracombe the station was well uphill and nearly a mile from the harbour.

Last time I was there, the Bideford - Barnstaple - Ilfracombe buses (which also stop by the station) were double-deckers at 10 minute intervals, a service level way above anything the railway ever offered, so they're hardly inaccessible towns.

 

[Ash Bridge]

It's a real tragedy that the Barnstaple Junc. to Ilfracombe section was axed in the first place, and especially so when you look how popular the remaining section of the North Devon(Tarka) Line is today, the stretch to Ilfracombe would surely be equally so, not to mention the Bideford route, I would dearly love to see these lines reinstated as part of the National Network even though I know there is next to no chance of this happening for Ilfracombe at least, sadly I feel this is just too big a project for preservationists to take on singlehandedly and can't see it getting much beyond a short stretch of relayed track somewhere in the middle of the former route going from nowhere to nowhere, having said that I do wish them the best of luck with their aims.

 

[Greenback]

It's a real tragedy that the Barnstaple Junc. to Ilfracombe section was axed in the first place, and especially so when you look how popular the remaining section of the North Devon(Tarka) Line is today, the stretch to Ilfracombe would surely be equally so, not to mention the Bideford route, I would dearly love to see these lines reinstated as part of the National Network even though I know there is next to no chance of this happening for Ilfracombe at least, sadly I feel this is just too big a project for preservationists to take on singlehandedly and can't see it getting much beyond a short stretch of relayed track somewhere in the middle of the former route going from nowhere to nowhere, having said that I do wish them the best of luck with their aims.

You have summed up my feeling nicely

 

[Dr_Paul]

I know it's been a constant subject of debate since the start of preservation a long time back, but I do feel that a little more concentration on the existing incomplete projects is a better idea than starting another new one which would probably end up as a disembodied couple of miles with a few Mark 1 carriages as the rolling stock. As the rebuilding of the Lynton and Barnstable line is underway and seems to be viable project, might not the time, money and energy be better invested there rather than in rebuilding a bit of the line to Ilfracombe?

 

[Greenback]

That's a strong argument indeed, but it needs people to look at the big picture and the implication is that there should be some form of overall central control of the preservation industry.

That's probably going to be resisted not just by those who want to develop their own pet projects and have a measure of control over them, but also by those who don;t want what they see as an outside, probably unelected body deciding what is to be a priority!

 

[341o2]

Started thinking of where there are heritsge lines within a short distance of each other and came up with

Didcot - Wallingford - Chinnpr

Tallylyn - Corris - Fairbourne - Ffestiniog/Welsh Highland

One major obstacle surely must be the loss of Ilfracombe station site and the steep gradient of 1 in 36 of the surviving trackbed

 

[Ash Bridge]

One major obstacle surely must be the loss of Ilfracombe station site and the steep gradient of 1 in 36 of the surviving trackbed

Indeed! What with that and the iron bridge over the Taw at Barnstaple missing I think its only chance of reinstatement is if the will (and finance) is there to make it part of the National network again, on the other hand the Barnstaple Junc.-Bideford (and Torrington) section would surely be much simpler and cheaper to put back?

 

[A0]

Started thinking of where there are heritsge lines within a short distance of each other and came up with

Didcot - Wallingford - Chinnpr

Tallylyn - Corris - Fairbourne - Ffestiniog/Welsh Highland

One major obstacle surely must be the loss of Ilfracombe station site and the steep gradient of 1 in 36 of the surviving trackbed

Didcot is more a railway centre than a preserved line.

Both Wallingford and Chinnor were fortunate in that they inherited largely intact lines which made their restoration fairly easy.

The Welsh NG lines are a different matter - originally opened as slate transportation, they were generally early preservations and NG is much cheaper to operate and maintain than Standard Gauge.

 

[341o2]

Didcot is more a railway centre than a preserved line.

Both Wallingford and Chinnor were fortunate in that they inherited largely intact lines which made their restoration fairly easy. .

not so for the Chinnor and Princes Risborough line to fulfill its name...more red tape than physical work

 

[455driver]

Indeed! What with that and the iron bridge over the Taw at Barnstaple missing I think its only chance of reinstatement is if the will (and finance) is there to make it part of the National network again, on the other hand the Barnstaple Junc.-Bideford (and Torrington) section would surely be much simpler and cheaper to put back?

Where does it say they want to reinstate the whole route?
The way I read it they want to relay about 4 miles of it!

 

[Ash Bridge]

Where does it say they want to reinstate the whole route?
The way I read it they want to relay about 4 miles of it!

Yes, to set up a heritage line between Knowle and Willingcott initially which is basically from nowhere to nowhere, but don't you get the impression that perhaps they want to get the locals who reside close to (or in some cases on top of) the former line onside before they begin to get more ambitious about extending in stages if it proves to be a success? there is a comment on the website from the general manager of the West Somerset Railway (who are supporters of Combe Rail)stating something along the lines of that perhaps at some point in the future it could be possible to run a railtour from Minehead to Ilfracombe, I just get a feeling that they are treading very carefully with any press releases at this early stage as no doubt there will be a lot of people who are opposed to trains returning, ofcourse then again I could be totally wrong.

 

[Bevan Price]

Surely one of the reasons for closure was that it wasn't convenient for Croyde, Mortehoe or even Ilfracombe itself. Once past Braunton the line was up on the hills a couple of miles inland, and even at Ilfracombe the station was well uphill and nearly a mile from the harbour.

And it was difficult to work -- some longish sections slightly steeper than Lickey Incline -- in both directions.

 

[yorksrob]

And it was difficult to work -- some longish sections slightly steeper than Lickey Incline -- in both directions.

Yes, but doubtless more convenient than 'Barnstaple Junction' which is the current railhead.

 

[MarkyT]

Surely one of the reasons for closure was that it wasn't convenient for Croyde, Mortehoe or even Ilfracombe itself. Once past Braunton the line was up on the hills a couple of miles inland, and even at Ilfracombe the station was well uphill and nearly a mile from the harbour.

Agreed remote and up the hill, much more so than, say, Brixham which was just up the hill and might have been possible to link the short distance to the harbour using a lift or funicular. Returning to Ilfracombe, despite it's location it might nevertheless be used reasonably well today had it survived, with people being able to drive to the station, be picked up or dropped off by friends and family or use a connecting shuttle bus or taxi, or local town buses rerouted via the station. There's also more housing development around the old station since closure too, potential walking distance custom for commuting to Barnstaple and Exeter.

See attached for a quick idea for a light rail replacement route following a valley down to the town centre level. 80m minimum radius curve, average gradient about 1:25, total length new alignment 2.5km. Mostly segregated at backs of gardens with very little demolition required and only a handful of new level crossings. New terminus in car park next to a Lidl store on Wilder Rd.

And it was difficult to work -- some longish sections slightly steeper than Lickey Incline -- in both directions.

Not such a problem with modern powerful MU stock.

 

[341o2]

Indeed! What with that and the iron bridge over the Taw at Barnstaple missing I think its only chance of reinstatement is if the will (and finance) is there to make it part of the National network again, on the other hand the Barnstaple Junc.-Bideford (and Torrington) section would surely be much simpler and cheaper to put back?

When the last clay trains ran in 1982, a society was formed to try and save the Bideford - Barnstaple section, BR did not carry out any track lifting for two years, but the society was unable to raise the asking amount of £313,000 for the land and track.

Subsequently, when the trackbed became the Tarka Trail, Devon County Cuncil raised bridge 177, effectively cutting the line in two.

The trackbed north of what was one Junction station has now been developed, in part a car park. I envisage, that when (hopefully) the L&B gets to Barnstaple, the railway will probably terminate in the vicinity of Snapper Halt - rather like the Welshpool & Llanfair

The last "train" in any shape or form (for the foreseeable future) was an attempt to run a 00 guage line along the trackbed using Hornby stock. If I remember rightly, the flying scotsman rather disgraced itself by breaking down before getting across the car park at Barnstaple

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1577923/

 

[Ash Bridge]

When the last clay trains ran in 1982, a society was formed to try and save the Bideford - Barnstaple section, BR did not carry out any track lifting for two years, but the society was unable to raise the asking amount of £313,000 for the land and track.

Subsequently, when the trackbed became the Tarka Trail, Devon County Cuncil raised bridge 177, effectively cutting the line in two.

The trackbed north of what was one Junction station has now been developed, in part a car park. I envisage, that when (hopefully) the L&B gets to Barnstaple, the railway will probably terminate in the vicinity of Snapper Halt - rather like the Welshpool & Llanfair

The last "train" in any shape or form (for the foreseeable future) was an attempt to run a 00 guage line along the trackbed using Hornby stock. If I remember rightly, the flying scotsman rather disgraced itself by breaking down before getting across the car park at Barnstaple

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1577923/

What an absolute shame, ofcourse that sum looks like a drop in the ocean at today's prices, but positively it appears all the rest of the formation has been kept intact and not built over (bar the bridge you mention) unlike the Ilfracombe route.

My how things have changed at Barnstaple Junc. last time I was there in September 1990 the down platform still had track in place and line continued around the left hand curve towards Bideford! The large car park that now straddles the old formation I presume is the station car park, so would it still be owned by NR?

 

[yorksrob]

I understand that the Bideford line was the inspiration for the original Speller act of the 1980''s which saw so many routes reinstated.

 

[Ash Bridge]

I understand that the Bideford line was the inspiration for the original Speller act of the 1980''s which saw so many routes reinstated.

I didn't know about that, the inspiration for the act and yet it still wasn't reopened

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I understand that the Bideford line was the inspiration for the original Speller act of the 1980''s which saw so many routes reinstated.

It was indeed - Tony Speller , the local MP - who hoped for Bideford - but never saw it re-opened.....

 

[A0]

What an absolute shame, ofcourse that sum looks like a drop in the ocean at today's prices, but positively it appears all the rest of the formation has been kept intact and not built over (bar the bridge you mention) unlike the Ilfracombe route.

My how things have changed at Barnstaple Junc. last time I was there in September 1990 the down platform still had track in place and line continued around the left hand curve towards Bideford! The large car park that now straddles the old formation I presume is the station car park, so would it still be owned by NR?

If it was £ 313,000 in 1982 this tool http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...tion-calculator-value-money-changed-1900.html

reckons that's about £ 1.1m in today's prices - not an insignificant sum.