• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

If you were to redesign Euston tube station what changes would you make

Status
Not open for further replies.

Silent

Member
Joined
31 Mar 2016
Messages
761
Location
London
I use the Victoria Line to Euston on my way home from work. I have used it on mornings occasionally but usually don't. I find when I use it on mornings it's congested as it's rush hour I guess and then I'm transfering from a commuter train so I guess that makes the transfer even more congested. The corridors are also congested on the way to the platform. I have heard that Euston tube station was designed well to deal with crowds though and gets the job done. I haven't seen staff close off a corridor to a tube platform due to overcrowding, maybe I don't use the station enough to experience that. I don't often use the Northern Line to or from Euston. Did once though, Charing Cross branch and the train was horrendously overcrowded.

I think from my Victoria Line Northbound platform the first thing I think might improve passenger flow is having multiple exits and wider access to the concourse with the escalators, like just one really wide passage or maybe more open plan platforms like a few on the JLE, Elizabeth Line stations although that may make it look a bit less London Underground. But exiting the train it always feels too easy to bump into another person rushing for the train because of how narrow the passages to the corridor is and the sharp corner makes it a blind spot. Perhaps direction goes to the National rail station and the other to Euston Square, I'm not sure how many people use Euston Square as an interchange though as they also have Kings Cross. At least 3 escalators for both exits. I think it's probably also the corridors that create bottlenecks with the sharp corners that leads to congestion. Maybe eliminating sharp tight corners would ease congestion as I notice Victoria tube station, Victoria Line deals well with congestion, Green Park Jubilee Line doesn't when I use it to transfer to a Victoria Line. I think the one way system works so would extend it to platform level like Victoria. Maybe the different platforms would have their own exiting escalators to make exiting the station more quicker on the national rail exit side. The station concourse would have to be bigger to deal with passenger flow out then. So it would need extra space for an entrance as well. Maybe to enter from the national rail entrance 3 escalators, One way to a much wider halfway level corridor, maybe open plan and then separate escalators 2 one way for each of the 6 platforms, I think. Though I'm not sure if 2 of the platforms wouldn't need escalators.

And the other exit that provides a transfer would have other exits to street. Maybe the national rail exit should also include an exit to the bus station and one for buses going in the opposite direction, would need to knock down some buildings for that.

I guess some of this is unrealistic.

Writing this makes me realise that Euston tube station is complicated and though not pleasant to use efficient. I would guess modern stations might be less efficient in the space they take and amount of escalators they use to minimise the chances of overcrowding.
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

urbophile

Established Member
Joined
26 Nov 2015
Messages
2,482
Location
Liverpool
I've never been able to understand why the Metropolitan line station has always been so far away from Euston (and indeed Euston Square itself) when one of the reasons for the Metropolitan in the first place was to link up the northern terminal stations, of which Euston was I think the first. Probably something to do with aristocratic landlords I suppose. A priority for remodelling Euston underground must be to make the interchange between the subsurface and the deep level lines more effective. The eastern end of Euston Square platforms is nearer to Euston than the present entrance which is further west.
 

Mikey C

Established Member
Joined
11 Feb 2013
Messages
8,281
Euston Underground definitely needs more underground passageways, to separate out the passenger flows. It also feels bizarre that everything funnels into 3 escalators up to the ticket hall, rather than having separate sets for the different platforms. Even before the rebuild, Kings Cross had separate escalators for the Piccadilly/Northern and Victoria Lines.

And daft that there's no way of exiting the station onto the Euston road, as not everyone is going to the NR station. Weird that an underground passageway towards both sides of the Euston Road was never added when the station was rebuilt in the 60s. That would have significantly have reduced the distance between Euston underground and Euston Square too.
 

Mr. SW

Member
Joined
13 Sep 2023
Messages
552
Location
Armchair
I've never been able to understand why the Metropolitan line station has always been so far away from Euston (and indeed Euston Square itself) when one of the reasons for the Metropolitan in the first place was to link up the northern terminal stations, of which Euston was I think the first. Probably something to do with aristocratic landlords I suppose
Probably something to do with the London and North Western Railway. At the time of construction, the Metropolitan Railway was getting into bed with the Great Western Railway and as they were at the time either already had/were building/planning lines to Birmingham, Wolverhampton, Shrewsbury, Birkenhead and other such places, all of which the LNWR considered were in their 'territory', having a the possibility of a potential rival right outside their front door was too much to bear. So hence Gower Street (As was) or Euston Square, as it later became, is "the wrong way round". The sooner an eastern entrance is put in, the better.

I'm not sure of the layout of disused passages under Euston inherited from the various alterations are reusable but the old connection to the demolished City and South London Building has been effectively blocked off from the surface.
 

PeterC

Established Member
Joined
29 Sep 2014
Messages
4,786
I've never been able to understand why the Metropolitan line station has always been so far away from Euston (and indeed Euston Square itself) when one of the reasons for the Metropolitan in the first place was to link up the northern terminal stations, of which Euston was I think the first. Probably something to do with aristocratic landlords I suppose.
The cut and cover tunnel had to go under Euston Road. The question is why did the LNWR set their station so far back?
 

SynthD

Established Member
Joined
4 Apr 2020
Messages
2,059
Location
UK

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
20,456
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
I use the Victoria Line to Euston on my way home from work. I have used it on mornings occasionally but usually don't. I find when I use it on mornings it's congested as it's rush hour I guess and then I'm transfering from a commuter train so I guess that makes the transfer even more congested. The corridors are also congested on the way to the platform. I have heard that Euston tube station was designed well to deal with crowds though and gets the job done. I haven't seen staff close off a corridor to a tube platform due to overcrowding, maybe I don't use the station enough to experience that. I don't often use the Northern Line to or from Euston. Did once though, Charing Cross branch and the train was horrendously overcrowded.

I think from my Victoria Line Northbound platform the first thing I think might improve passenger flow is having multiple exits and wider access to the concourse with the escalators, like just one really wide passage or maybe more open plan platforms like a few on the JLE, Elizabeth Line stations although that may make it look a bit less London Underground. But exiting the train it always feels too easy to bump into another person rushing for the train because of how narrow the passages to the corridor is and the sharp corner makes it a blind spot. Perhaps direction goes to the National rail station and the other to Euston Square, I'm not sure how many people use Euston Square as an interchange though as they also have Kings Cross. At least 3 escalators for both exits. I think it's probably also the corridors that create bottlenecks with the sharp corners that leads to congestion. Maybe eliminating sharp tight corners would ease congestion as I notice Victoria tube station, Victoria Line deals well with congestion, Green Park Jubilee Line doesn't when I use it to transfer to a Victoria Line. I think the one way system works so would extend it to platform level like Victoria. Maybe the different platforms would have their own exiting escalators to make exiting the station more quicker on the national rail exit side. The station concourse would have to be bigger to deal with passenger flow out then. So it would need extra space for an entrance as well. Maybe to enter from the national rail entrance 3 escalators, One way to a much wider halfway level corridor, maybe open plan and then separate escalators 2 one way for each of the 6 platforms, I think. Though I'm not sure if 2 of the platforms wouldn't need escalators.

And the other exit that provides a transfer would have other exits to street. Maybe the national rail exit should also include an exit to the bus station and one for buses going in the opposite direction, would need to knock down some buildings for that.

I guess some of this is unrealistic.

Writing this makes me realise that Euston tube station is complicated and though not pleasant to use efficient. I would guess modern stations might be less efficient in the space they take and amount of escalators they use to minimise the chances of overcrowding.

A relatively easy win might have been to construct a small entrance/exit from the southern end of the CX branch platforms. There’s a lot of work been done there recently as part of the relocation works for the vent shaft and substation, and it presumably wouldn’t have been that hard to have increased to scope to include some form of passenger access. This would at least take non-mainline passengers out of the congested current entrance.

Apart from that, it’s difficult to know where to start. The layout is too small for the numbers using it, and it doesn’t help that it copes increasingly badly as spatial awareness and general aptitude of people has declined over the years.

Euston Square is a horrific station to use for the same reasons.

I guess one quick win would be to replace the gateline with one which has more gates, as passing through the booking hall is often a bottleneck. However this may well just shift the problem to another part of the station - either the NR escalators, or the circulating area at the bottom of the booking hall to lower concourse LU escalators.
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
28,764
Location
Nottingham
Two of the deep level platforms are old, the other two are from the 60s. The level of crowding they were built to is not what we plan for now. A total fantasy rebuild would make it look like two Elizabeth line stations

They didn’t buy the land. The road was further away and less important then too.
The C&SLR originally had an island platform at Euston, until one track was filled in and a new tunnel built - part of the same works as the Victoria I think. So actually only one of the platform tunnels is "original" - the Northern towards Kings Cross which is noticeably wider than usual.
 

Helvellyn

Established Member
Joined
28 Aug 2009
Messages
2,592
I've never been able to understand why the Metropolitan line station has always been so far away from Euston (and indeed Euston Square itself) when one of the reasons for the Metropolitan in the first place was to link up the northern terminal stations, of which Euston was I think the first.
The original Met King's Cross station was where King's Cross Thameslink was, so not close to King's Cross until relocated in, I think, the 1940s. (The Widened Line BR platforms remained until the Thameslink changes). So not massively convenient for King's Cross and less so for St Pancras.

Marylebone, which came after the Met Line, also has no station on the line, and despite some common owning interests no equivalent of Euston Square was built for Marylebone which still only has a Bakerloo Line station to this day.

Even Paddington has it's stations split between the Hammersmith & City and District/Central Line ones. It's only Liverpool Street that feels properly linked up.
 

pokemonsuper9

Established Member
Joined
20 Dec 2022
Messages
4,662
Location
Greater Manchester
Tunnel on ticketed side connecting to Euston Square.
And more entrances/exits to the main tube station, maybe one nearer platforms 1-3 and by HS2's platforms.

Is Crossrail 2 still a thing and weren't there some changes to Euston planned for that?
 

dorsetdesiro

On Moderation
Joined
30 Oct 2017
Messages
766
Wasn't it planned for Euston to be linked to St Pancras with travelators under Euston Road presumably between new combined Euston/Eus Square and KGX-STP tube stations thus connecting both HS1 and HS2?

Wouldn't be surprised if this was dropped due to cost cutting so the trundling along Euston Road with luggage between stations will continue.
 

Recessio

Established Member
Joined
4 Aug 2019
Messages
1,545
Location
London
I've never been able to understand why the Metropolitan line station has always been so far away from Euston (and indeed Euston Square itself) when one of the reasons for the Metropolitan in the first place was to link up the northern terminal stations, of which Euston was I think the first. Probably something to do with aristocratic landlords I suppose. A priority for remodelling Euston underground must be to make the interchange between the subsurface and the deep level lines more effective. The eastern end of Euston Square platforms is nearer to Euston than the present entrance which is further west.
Back when Euston Square Station was built, the site of what is now Friends House and Drayton House - east of Euston Square Station and directly opposite Euston Station, and therefore the most logical stretch of Euston Road to build the station on - was a garden square/park called Endsleigh Gardens.

Presumably it somehow wasn't okay for the Met to build a railway station on the Gardens in 1863 (although somehow it was okay for the Quakers to build Friends House on it in 1923!).

As part of Crossrail 2, there was a plan to add a joint Euston/Euston Square entrance at the eastern end of Euston Square Station, pedestrianising the link between Gordon Street and Euston Road. Given that most of Gordon Street is now being pedestrianised by Camden Council and University College London, it would make quite a good entrance if ever built - and far more useful for both stations, as well as a good way to separate "local" passengers from other passengers changing between National Rail and Underground services.
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
35,965
Wasn't it planned for Euston to be linked to St Pancras with travelators under Euston Road presumably between new combined Euston/Eus Square and KGX-STP tube stations thus connecting both HS1 and HS2?

No, that was never planned.

Crossrail 2 linked Euston tube with St Pancras national rail, but not with Kings Cross / St Pancras underground. No travelators though - no need.
 

Russel

Established Member
Joined
30 Jun 2022
Messages
5,571
Location
Lichfield
Euston Square is a horrific station to use for the same reasons.

Can't say I've ever found Euston Square to be horrific, in fact, I've used it at all times of the day and can't recall it ever being all that busy for a zone 1 station. If I was to describe Euston Square, I'd probably go for "Unremarkable, somewhat grotty but functional".
 

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
20,456
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
Can't say I've ever found Euston Square to be horrific, in fact, I've used it at all times of the day and can't recall it ever being all that busy for a zone 1 station. If I was to describe Euston Square, I'd probably go for "Unremarkable, somewhat grotty but functional".

Oh I absolutely loathe it. Where do we start?

Firstly, even the environs outside are horrible, especially on the north side of Euston Road. Always crowded with people, who always seem to have disproportionate amounts of luggage. Just to make it worse, there’s normally at least one beggar outside the entrance positioned perfectly to cause the maximum blockage. And the street there is pretty polluted too.

Then there’s the poky cramped booking hall, which is always artificially crowded because it doubles up as a public subway - the only crossing point of Euston Road in the immediate vicinity. The gateline is similarly cramped.

Having got this far, you have just one fairly narrow stairwell to each platform, with poor segregation of inwards and outwards flows. Then the platforms are narrow and tend to have people congregating around the one entrance, not helped by the fact you have multiple destinations, so many people don’t get on the first train, adding to the cramped crowded feel.

I just find it a horrible poorly functioning station to use. It would be fine if it was lightly used, but it isn’t, which makes it a negative experience. It’s difficult to know what could be quickly done to fix any of this.

Euston itself has all the same issues but on a larger scale. Both would be okay if they weren’t as heavily used, or their usage was solely by commuter types who know what they’re doing, but they’re not, hence both stations have a feeling that they can barely cope.
 

Snow1964

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2019
Messages
11,270
Location
West Wiltshire
Euston Square is a horrific station to use for the same reasons.

Wouldn't call it horrific, but it was a shame that during the 1960s expansion they didn't cut a hole through at other end of platforms and put in a link tunnel direct to the new low level concourse, similar to how the link at Bank (from Mansion House) or the ones built from District line platforms to new Victoria line platforms at Victoria were constructed.

But Euston Square was not really seen as a mainline connection station by then, more a station to serve the local area. Northern line and new Victoria line were seen as the mainline station feeders
 

Silent

Member
Joined
31 Mar 2016
Messages
761
Location
London
No, that was never planned.

Crossrail 2 linked Euston tube with St Pancras national rail, but not with Kings Cross / St Pancras underground. No travelators though - no need.
That is a long interchange though just like current Elizabeth line interchanges are long in the core section.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Oh I absolutely loathe it. Where do we start?

Firstly, even the environs outside are horrible, especially on the north side of Euston Road. Always crowded with people, who always seem to have disproportionate amounts of luggage. Just to make it worse, there’s normally at least one beggar outside the entrance positioned perfectly to cause the maximum blockage. And the street there is pretty polluted too.

Then there’s the poky cramped booking hall, which is always artificially crowded because it doubles up as a public subway - the only crossing point of Euston Road in the immediate vicinity. The gateline is similarly cramped.

Having got this far, you have just one fairly narrow stairwell to each platform, with poor segregation of inwards and outwards flows. Then the platforms are narrow and tend to have people congregating around the one entrance, not helped by the fact you have multiple destinations, so many people don’t get on the first train, adding to the cramped crowded feel.

I just find it a horrible poorly functioning station to use. It would be fine if it was lightly used, but it isn’t, which makes it a negative experience. It’s difficult to know what could be quickly done to fix any of this.

Euston itself has all the same issues but on a larger scale. Both would be okay if they weren’t as heavily used, or their usage was solely by commuter types who know what they’re doing, but they’re not, hence both stations have a feeling that they can barely cope.
Yeah I never remember seeing a crowded Euston Square platform, it’s only the ticket hall that feels busy, from my memories. Definitely needs a redesign of possible. Currently it seems functional though.
 

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
20,456
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
Wouldn't call it horrific, but it was a shame that during the 1960s expansion they didn't cut a hole through at other end of platforms and put in a link tunnel direct to the new low level concourse, similar to how the link at Bank (from Mansion House) or the ones built from District line platforms to new Victoria line platforms at Victoria were constructed.

But Euston Square was not really seen as a mainline connection station by then, more a station to serve the local area. Northern line and new Victoria line were seen as the mainline station feeders

The amount of people using Euston Square does seem to have increased massively, I wonder if this is because it has tended to be more heavily promoted as an interchange in recent years. As you say, my recollection even as recently as the 2000s was that is was more of a “local” station.

You’d think that most people would find it easier just to use the Northern Line and change at King’s Cross or Moorgate. That said, I wonder how many people who do the trek along Euston Road from Euston to Euston Square are actually travelling, as opposed to using the station as a subway to cross the road. There’s a lot of student accommodation in the area.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

That is a long interchange though just like current Elizabeth line interchanges are long in the core section.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


Yeah I never remember seeing a crowded Euston Square platform, it’s only the ticket hall that feels busy, from my memories. Definitely needs a redesign of possible. Currently it seems functional though.

The platforms don’t have to be massively crowded to *feel* crowded. Just takes a few people to plonk themselves and their luggage down around the entrance, which is what always seems to be the case, and perhaps amplified by them not wanting the first or more trains, and it fees congested even if on paper it isn’t.
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
35,965
That is a long interchange though just like current Elizabeth line interchanges are long in the core section.

Not really. It is planned to be a long way down to be clear of all the other tunnels etc in the area. In a straight line it is 480metres from the east side of Euston to the west side of St Pancras. By the time you‘ve dropped down two long escalators at 30degrees from the east side of Euston, and the same from the west side of St Pancras, there’s not much more than the platform length between them.
 

Harpo

Established Member
Joined
21 Aug 2024
Messages
3,973
Location
Newport
I often wonder why, before creating the Euston station bus station, TfL didn’t use that site to first create a Met/Circus Euston station underneath.

I suspect that the sensitivity of the Euston Road traffic trumps any rail project.
 

pokemonsuper9

Established Member
Joined
20 Dec 2022
Messages
4,662
Location
Greater Manchester
You’d think that most people would find it easier just to use the Northern Line and change at King’s Cross or Moorgate.
But that does require going all the way down to the deep level platforms and navigating between them, it usually works out as quicker to walk from Euston Square. (I've done it at both, at least at Moorgate the change to/from Eastbound Subsurface is just 1 escalator
 

Harpo

Established Member
Joined
21 Aug 2024
Messages
3,973
Location
Newport
But that does require going all the way down to the deep level platforms and navigating between them, it usually works out as quicker to walk from Euston Square.
Eastbound, it’s only Liv St without a quick deep level workaround. Fenchurch St is quicker via Bank.

Westbound, Victoria/Bakerloo is infinitely better for Paddington giving speed, frequency and arrival on Paddington’s concourse, not some distant shop-free overbridge.
 
Last edited:

Mike99

Member
Joined
4 Mar 2011
Messages
868
Location
G E M L
I walk with a stick and its a long walk from the rear of a Pendolino arriving at London Euston to the Met/Circle line platforms at Euston Square. I wonder if many people walk from Warren Street Underground to access Euston Square rather than staying on to alight at Euston Underground.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
113,835
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Presumably it somehow wasn't okay for the Met to build a railway station on the Gardens in 1863 (although somehow it was okay for the Quakers to build Friends House on it in 1923!).

Euston Square doesn't have much in the way of ground level buildings anyway, just stairs down.
 

Silent

Member
Joined
31 Mar 2016
Messages
761
Location
London
Not really. It is planned to be a long way down to be clear of all the other tunnels etc in the area. In a straight line it is 480metres from the east side of Euston to the west side of St Pancras. By the time you‘ve dropped down two long escalators at 30degrees from the east side of Euston, and the same from the west side of St Pancras, there’s not much more than the platform length between them.
That’s a long interchange though if not using the Crossrail 2, it’s walkable but long as in you start to question if it’s convenient.
 

Russel

Established Member
Joined
30 Jun 2022
Messages
5,571
Location
Lichfield
That’s a long interchange though if not using the Crossrail 2, it’s walkable but long as in you start to question if it’s convenient.

Bit like the Liverpool Street / Moorgate interchange, I've done it once and now believe waiting for a sub-surface train would have been quicker than walking.
 

Silent

Member
Joined
31 Mar 2016
Messages
761
Location
London
Bit like the Liverpool Street / Moorgate interchange, I've done it once and now believe waiting for a sub-surface train would have been quicker than walking.
I guess the Moorgate interchange only really makes sense if you are going Moorgate or want to interchange to a Northern line train.
 

The exile

Established Member
Joined
31 Mar 2010
Messages
9,475
Location
Somerset
But Euston Square was not really seen as a mainline connection station by then, more a station to serve the local area. Northern line and new Victoria line were seen as the mainline station feeders
The idea of the Metropolitan Railway acting as a distributor for passengers arriving at /departing from the Northern Termini would have been pretty low down the priority list. It goes under Euston Road principally because that was the easiest way to get from Liverpool Street to Paddington.
 

hwl

Established Member
Joined
5 Feb 2012
Messages
8,293
Weird that an underground passageway towards both sides of the Euston Road was never added when the station was rebuilt in the 60s. That would have significantly have reduced the distance between Euston underground and Euston Square too.
There is a large sewer in the way.
One of the early HS2 cost saving measures was dumping the cost of properly linking to Euston Square on TfL.
 

Russel

Established Member
Joined
30 Jun 2022
Messages
5,571
Location
Lichfield
I guess the Moorgate interchange only really makes sense if you are going Moorgate or want to interchange to a Northern line train.

If you arrive on the Elizabeth Line, then I guess it works quite well as the distance isn't too much, but from Liverpool Street NR or Underground, I can't think of many cases where it wouldn't be quicker to use the sub-surface to reach Moorgate/Northern Line at Moorgate.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top