If you had a chance to chat with Network Rail

[ClockFace]

Hi all - got a chance to chat with them in a couple of weeks. It's a pro-bono project, more like a strategic one looking at the long term, for example, how demographic changes will impact the UK railway and what actions should be taken, etc. External consultancy can sometimes be very constrained, and doing abstract topics like this, but I do wanna leverage this opportunity to raise some extent of awareness into real issues and actions from a passenger perspective like you and me.

Ahead of our initial meeting, I'd be down for any ideas you guys have (I'm also extensively browsing the forum as well). It can be any suggestions on what they should be focusing for GBR, infra investments, fare plans, and so forth. It is really amazing to see such an active forum in 2025 with lots of enthusiasts and experts. I'm also hoping this thread can work as a place for them to check from time to time.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 May 2025 ==

P.s. very generic project, will probably not have the granularity down to routes and stations (should be down to operating regions)

 

[Magdalia]

It's a pro-bono project, more like a strategic one looking at the long term

I'm a bit confused here. I think of pro bono as being a legal term, where lawyers offer their services in a legal case without charging a fee.

But even if Network Rail isn't paying, Network Rail people are giving up their time that they could use on the day job; what is the deliverable that they are getting in return?

for example, how demographic changes will impact the UK railway and what actions should be taken,

Regarding demography, three things stand out for me:

• recruitment and retention: if the age profile of the railway workforce is anything like that of the UK population, as shown in the 2021 census, then there is a problem
• an aging and less healthy population: how does the railway ensure that they continue to use the train as they get older and their health and mobility decline?
• 1.5 million new homes and new towns: is the railway ready to deliver the new stations and new train services that will be required, and, in the words of the Chancellor, to go further and faster?

 

[I'm here now]

Hi all - got a chance to chat with them in a couple of weeks. It's a pro-bono project, more like a strategic one looking at the long term, for example, how demographic changes will impact the UK railway and what actions should be taken, etc. External consultancy can sometimes be very constrained, and doing abstract topics like this, but I do wanna leverage this opportunity to raise some extent of awareness into real issues and actions from a passenger perspective like you and me.

Ahead of our initial meeting, I'd be down for any ideas you guys have (I'm also extensively browsing the forum as well). It can be any suggestions on what they should be focusing for GBR, infra investments, fare plans, and so forth. It is really amazing to see such an active forum in 2025 with lots of enthusiasts and experts. I'm also hoping this thread can work as a place for them to check from time to time.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 May 2025 ==

P.s. very generic project, will probably not have the granularity down to routes and stations (should be down to operating regions)

I suppose why do so many routes lack clockface (it’s in your name!) schedules - what infrastructure constraints are there down Wales and Western, etc.?

 

[The Planner]

I suppose why do so many routes lack clockface (it’s in your name!) schedules - what infrastructure constraints are there down Wales and Western, etc.?

NR will know all that already, via the strategic planners, economic analysts etc

 

[LittleRedTrain]

With the increase in weekend leisure travel, the rise of 'Work from Home' and flexible working, does there need to be a rethink about the best times/ways of carrying out engineering work to provide a better service for more customers?
This includes both big projects and day-to-day maintenance that requires lines to be shut.

Does doing engineering at weekends now negatively impact more passengers than doing it on weekday evenings or having a mid-day block (as used in some places on the continent)?
Is there more that could be done to allow maintenance to take place safely while trains are still running?

 

[I'm here now]

NR will know all that already, via the strategic planners, economic analysts etc

I just thought it was questions for the public moreso - I would hope they know why! Must’ve misread the question.

 

[The Planner]

With the increase in weekend leisure travel, the rise of 'Work from Home' and flexible working, does there need to be a rethink about the best times/ways of carrying out engineering work to provide a better service for more customers?
This includes both big projects and day-to-day maintenance that requires lines to be shut.

Does doing engineering at weekends now negatively impact more passengers than doing it on weekday evenings or having a mid-day block (as used in some places on the continent)?
Is there more that could be done to allow maintenance to take place safely while trains are still running?

That is/has already been looked at, hence the increased amount of blockades happening. Red zone working is never going to be relaxed.

 

[Class15]

I would probably question the recurring signal failure at Richmond that was ‘fixed’ (requiring a whole load of weekend closures) but still seems to be causing many problems. My friend who commutes in from Richmond on the District line has told me that it hasn’t improved since the ‘fix’.

 

[ClockFace]

I'm a bit confused here. I think of pro bono as being a legal term, where lawyers offer their services in a legal case without charging a fee.

But even if Network Rail isn't paying, Network Rail people are giving up their time that they could use on the day job; what is the deliverable that they are getting in return?


Regarding demography, three things stand out for me:

• recruitment and retention: if the age profile of the railway workforce is anything like that of the UK population, as shown in the 2021 census, then there is a problem
• an aging and less healthy population: how does the railway ensure that they continue to use the train as they get older and their health and mobility decline?
• 1.5 million new homes and new towns: is the railway ready to deliver the new stations and new train services that will be required, and, in the words of the Chancellor, to go further and faster?

You're right. We're not charging any fees and the time they allocated to us is outside of normal working hours, say maybe half an hour ahead of 9 in the morning, or lunch time.

Thanks for these suggestions! We also recognised the aging workforce issue (the NSAR survey). Accessibility will also be one of the topics definitely. For the 1.5 million new homes - we haven't looked into this but I'm thinking to combine this with the immigration trend. Just to illustrate the importance of capital investments but not sure if this is really a thing since CP7 and budgets are already out there.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 May 2025 ==

NR will know all that already, via the strategic planners, economic analysts etc

I think you're right. Also found this thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gb-should-have-a-national-clockface-timetable.248210/ so honestly don't think they'll be super interested in this. Thanks guys

 

[ClockFace]

With the increase in weekend leisure travel, the rise of 'Work from Home' and flexible working, does there need to be a rethink about the best times/ways of carrying out engineering work to provide a better service for more customers?
This includes both big projects and day-to-day maintenance that requires lines to be shut.

Does doing engineering at weekends now negatively impact more passengers than doing it on weekday evenings or having a mid-day block (as used in some places on the continent)?
Is there more that could be done to allow maintenance to take place safely while trains are still running?

Great one - we are looking at the passenger consumption/demand patterns regarding the changing peak-hour volume and the increasing leisure travel, but haven't thought about the engineering work. Will make sure to mention that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 May 2025 ==

I would probably question the recurring signal failure at Richmond that was ‘fixed’ (requiring a whole load of weekend closures) but still seems to be causing many problems. My friend who commutes in from Richmond on the District line has told me that it hasn’t improved since the ‘fix’.

Tbh I don't think it has already fixed - given the fact that another disruption just happened last month. Maybe I'll try bring this up when we discussion specific routes or stations.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 May 2025 ==

Hi all - got a chance to chat with them in a couple of weeks. It's a pro-bono project, more like a strategic one looking at the long term, for example, how demographic changes will impact the UK railway and what actions should be taken, etc. External consultancy can sometimes be very constrained, and doing abstract topics like this, but I do wanna leverage this opportunity to raise some extent of awareness into real issues and actions from a passenger perspective like you and me.

Ahead of our initial meeting, I'd be down for any ideas you guys have (I'm also extensively browsing the forum as well). It can be any suggestions on what they should be focusing for GBR, infra investments, fare plans, and so forth. It is really amazing to see such an active forum in 2025 with lots of enthusiasts and experts. I'm also hoping this thread can work as a place for them to check from time to time.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 May 2025 ==

P.s. very generic project, will probably not have the granularity down to routes and stations (should be down to operating regions)

Btw I'm trying to reply everyone and due to the forum regulation some of my replys are awaiting moderator approval. Please give this some time if you didn't see my response. Thank you all for the ideas

 

[Henffordd]

At the risk that you might appear to be borrowing their watch to tell them the time - on the grounds that these matters should already be high on their strategic planning list - two suggestions from me:

1. What plans to harden or modify infrastructure to address climate change? Lots of examples on this site of detail, particularly rail to Cornwall, and flooding: and, partly linked;

2. What plans to address 200 year-old infrastructure to ensure it will last for, say, another 200 years?

 

[WAO]

I'd like NR to commission marble busts of BR heroes, including Green, Bleasdale, Pettit, Prideaux, Shooter, Rees (CCE WR), Cotton (of S&C line) etc etc. Sorry for omissions including staff lost in line of duty.

WAO

 

[dk1]

With the increase in weekend leisure travel, the rise of 'Work from Home' and flexible working, does there need to be a rethink about the best times/ways of carrying out engineering work to provide a better service for more customers?
This includes both big projects and day-to-day maintenance that requires lines to be shut.

Does doing engineering at weekends now negatively impact more passengers than doing it on weekday evenings or having a mid-day block (as used in some places on the continent)?
Is there more that could be done to allow maintenance to take place safely while trains are still running?

I’d say more with the demise of people working from home. Commuter numbers are rising again at quite a rate. Monday-Thursday peak services serving Stratford/Liverpool Street are suffering overcrowding already and that’s with much increased seating capacity on the new fleets introduced since 2019/20.

 

[MattRat]

Are there any plans to bring back sectorisation? IMO, that was peak BR

 

[WAO]

Are there any plans to bring back sectorisation? IMO, that was peak BR

In effect, the new management is a return to the sub-sectors.

WAO

 

[Randomer]

A few things come to mind but I would be the first to admit that they probably aren't the abstract areas you are looking for:

- How does NR envisage dealing with the continuing cost escalation of railway infrastructure projects e.g. new stations or platforms? When compared to general infrastructure construction inflation e.g. non trunk roads it isn't a pretty picture.
- What discussions are ongoing about starting a rolling programme of electrification to keep the skilled workforce needed for this in the industry? Do they see potential for new funding for this if it would reduce electrification costs over a 15-25 year time frame?
- As a follow on the the above would something like the Indian CORE (Central Organisation for Railway Electrification) be a useful and have lessons from other countries been taken on board. I know we could argue all day about safety standards but India went from 45% to 95% mainline electrification in 10 years. Some things like National Grid connections can take longer than 10 years here for just one site.
- Not sure you would get an answer unless it was very off the record but does it seem like the emphasis on safety and particularly on process to ensure safety is now out of proportion to the level of risk involved? I.e. has the "as reasonably practical" taken a back seat in the current system?
- How do the new "sectors" envisage renewals and maintenance to be contracted or negotiated if not done in house? Something like the alliances seen in some business units currently or potentially a look at much larger framework contracts covering whole areas of work? This could be already taking place but nothing seems to have been announced yet at a national level outside of existing arrangements.
- Does NR see further fragmentation of its network as a potential positive or risk i.e. something like the TfW model over a wider area? Could it lead to a profusion of "sector" level process and management systems like happened in the early days of BR when the former companies in some areas ended up having outsize influence e.g. GWR in the Western region.

 

[ClockFace]

At the risk that you might appear to be borrowing their watch to tell them the time - on the grounds that these matters should already be high on their strategic planning list - two suggestions from me:

1. What plans to harden or modify infrastructure to address climate change? Lots of examples on this site of detail, particularly rail to Cornwall, and flooding: and, partly linked;

2. What plans to address 200 year-old infrastructure to ensure it will last for, say, another 200 years?

Yes sadly

Asset life / management will be a major topic. Thanks

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jun 2025 ==

I’d say more with the demise of people working from home. Commuter numbers are rising again at quite a rate. Monday-Thursday peak services serving Stratford/Liverpool Street are suffering overcrowding already and that’s with much increased seating capacity on the new fleets introduced since 2019/20.

We are keen to know if they have seen this trend post covid as well. Thanks

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jun 2025 ==

Are there any plans to bring back sectorisation? IMO, that was peak BR

I doubt this under GBR

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jun 2025 ==

A few things come to mind but I would be the first to admit that they probably aren't the abstract areas you are looking for:

- How does NR envisage dealing with the continuing cost escalation of railway infrastructure projects e.g. new stations or platforms? When compared to general infrastructure construction inflation e.g. non trunk roads it isn't a pretty picture.
- What discussions are ongoing about starting a rolling programme of electrification to keep the skilled workforce needed for this in the industry? Do they see potential for new funding for this if it would reduce electrification costs over a 15-25 year time frame?
- As a follow on the the above would something like the Indian CORE (Central Organisation for Railway Electrification) be a useful and have lessons from other countries been taken on board. I know we could argue all day about safety standards but India went from 45% to 95% mainline electrification in 10 years. Some things like National Grid connections can take longer than 10 years here for just one site.
- Not sure you would get an answer unless it was very off the record but does it seem like the emphasis on safety and particularly on process to ensure safety is now out of proportion to the level of risk involved? I.e. has the "as reasonably practical" taken a back seat in the current system?
- How do the new "sectors" envisage renewals and maintenance to be contracted or negotiated if not done in house? Something like the alliances seen in some business units currently or potentially a look at much larger framework contracts covering whole areas of work? This could be already taking place but nothing seems to have been announced yet at a national level outside of existing arrangements.
- Does NR see further fragmentation of its network as a potential positive or risk i.e. something like the TfW model over a wider area? Could it lead to a profusion of "sector" level process and management systems like happened in the early days of BR when the former companies in some areas ended up having outsize influence e.g. GWR in the Western region.

Thank you. Very insightful.

We might not be directly addressing the cost management issue but we'll definitely touch upon what investments should be prioritised with the budget constraint.

International case studies will be part of our deliverable, but we are also not so sure if they are useful because there are simply too many nuances between countries particularly the political system.

Segmentation can be a bit off-topic but I am interested in this as well.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jun 2025 ==

---

Thank you all for these wonderful ideas - we are about to have the meeting in just a few days. Potentially due to compliance I will not be replying this thread anymore, but if you wanna keep the discussion going feel free to do so

 

[dk1]

We are keen to know if they have seen this trend post covid as well. Thanks

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jun 2025 ==

I was referring to the last year or so so 2024/25.