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If train touches OLE

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Dolive22

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My source says only 'should follow
existing agreements with railway operators' and implies that power off should be requested. It also says that the request should be to infrastructure control via the rail incident officer or the services control room.

As to overheating, I worked out the figures before I saw this thread, and the heating across a person would probably kill in a time period on the order of a second with 1 MW. Spread across a train weighing maybe 100 tonnes, even 10 MW wouldn't be a problem in the short term.
 
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ralphchadkirk

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When being trained, I was told by the COI to be as assertive as possible when dealing with the police's command, as apparently they never believe you when you say the power is off!
 

Old Timer

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In the vast majority of cases the breakers will come out when there is a derailment AFFECTING the OHL itself, HOWEVER I personally have been involved in one incident where we reclosed the breakers after an overload trip to then discover that the wires were actually lying on top of the train.

In BR days good practice where I worked was to get the ECR to take out the Neutral breakers when there was a report of a mainline derailment until we knew the situation on site. That way we protected the train crew.

If a train was noted as along time in section and we had an overload trip then again we would not reclose the breakers for that line until we had a confirmation that all was ok, just in case.
 

Wyvern

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In BR days good practice where I worked was to get the ECR to take out the Neutral breakers when there was a report of a mainline derailment until we knew the situation on site. That way we protected the train crew.

Surely this would take everything up to line voltage :?:
 

Greeny

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Sorry if this drags on a bit;

Personally, I always felt safer where OLE was involved than I did with 3rd rail, and I was a Nominated Person for DC electrified lines. I’d prefer not to say why I felt unsafe with 3rd rail in an open post but if anybody it that interested, I’ll be happy to explain it in a PM.

It is always the case with OLE that if you ask for an Emergency Isolation, 99% of the time you will get it. However, they WILL NEVER isolate a specific Electrical Section for you (see ** below) – they always isolate everything from Feeder Station to Feeder Station or TSC (Track Sectioning Cabin) to TSC. That is all lines and sidings. They will not isolate a specific section save for a Nominated Person as there is always the danger that somebody asking for an emergency isolation could be mistaken about a location. So, they cut it all off.

Thankfully, I’ve only had to get the OLE off in an emergency seven times. As a rule, it is off within about 15 seconds of making the request. However, anybody granted an emergency Isolation is always warned that “All Overhead Line Equipment from XX Feeder Station to XY Feeder Station, all Lines and all Sidings is isolated and is safe to approach BUT IT IS NOT YET SAFE TO TOUCH IT” and you have to repeat it back to the Electrical Control Operator. They do that for a number of reasons – mainly the danger of the OLE being inadvertently livened up again by a train, any residual charge which may be retained until earthed out, and where Return Conductors (and particularly if they are associated with Booster Transformers) are involved, they can still retain a harmful charge even when the OLE is isolated and have to be earthed separately.

I’ve been involved in six incidents of people electrocuted on OLE (one actually happened in front of my face, and the clip of the Asian man on the train roof currently circulating was tame in comparison). Fortunately only two were fatal, but it is appalling – the site, the stink, and the filth which has to be scraped off the wires or whatever else they were touching afterwards. There used to be an allowance for OLE staff that had to get within two feet of live OLE – it was only pennies but the Chief OLE Supervisor at Wigan at the time threatened to discipline any man who ever tried to claim it.

One of the kids involved in one incident was shown in the ‘Children’s Hospital’ series, and he was one obnoxious little swine and he gave the Nurses hell.

In another incident of wires down, I was in Rail House when the ‘phone rang and it was one of our more ‘colourful’ relief Signalmen at a Local PSB. He said “’ey, the f*****g wires are sagging down out here”. You just can’t take a chance that he was buggering about. So I went up there and when I got there the wires were indeed sagging all the way along a Sidings known as ‘the Crack”. So I spoke to the ECO who told me that all OLE was live in the area and to bear that in mind if I went up to investigate. The Sidings was double line with a wall of about 6 feet either side so there wasn’t much room. The further up the sidings I got, the lower the wires drooped until, at the top of the sidings, they were on the ground. I called the ECO on my old Brunel ‘band 2’ radio and the ECO would not accept that the Wires were down and in contact with the ground. He insisted they were live. I said “I know they are f*****g live, I’m standing a few feet away and I’m telling you they are on the ground”.

The ECO said “Oh, blinking flip” (or something like that – I’m sure readers can guess). I didn’t want the power off (see** above), and I didn’t want the whole lot stopped from the Feeder Station to the buffer stops just for wires down in a sidings that wasn’t being used anyway so, they agreed not to isolate as long as Muggins remained on site to keep people away from it. So I was stuck there for a few hours.

You know when you are looking at something, and (apart from the bloody obvious) you can see something is wrong but you can’t quite grasp what it is ?. Well I was in that position – I could see the wires were down, but there was something else wrong also, and I was absolutely buggered if I could put my finger on it

Anyway, about 40 minutes later, a few HV vests appeared at the outlet end of the Sidings and started walking up the gradient towards me. It was a few OLE Supervisors. And when they got up to me they were scratching their heads and smirking too. Surprised at their reaction, I said “what” and one of them said that he wouldn’t have believed that the wires could be touching the ground but still be live. The other one said to me “you haven’t twigged on yet have you ?”. I asked him to what I hadn’t twigged, and he said “It’s been nicked”. Still not grasping it, I asked what, and he said “the OLE – it’s been nicked” (stolen). And it hit me like a brick. That was what I couldn’t figure out: there was about 100 yards in total of OLE missing !. After a while it was established that during the weekend blanket isolation, someone had cut into the OLE with bolt cutters at the anchor point which made the OLE fall back (hence the ‘sagging the Signalman had reported). Then they had helped themselves to everything in reach, right down to ‘Dropper Clips’.

For a while, we all suspected that a member of railway staff was involved as the theft took place during the weekend 18 hour isolation. But …… a few weeks later, the same thing happened again. This time the OLE was live but the thieves cut in between the last insulator and the anchor point so they got away with being fried. However, it gave them enough of a fright to make them leg it when the OLE fell back and tripped with a spectacular display of sparks, and on the up side, they never tried it again.

Anyway, I hope people found this helpful or even informative. Again, sorry it dragged on.
G
 

fsmr

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Talking to guys operating the trams at Blackpool, the thread of this post can be an issue if they derail and the trolley pole stays in contact. Anyone standing on the rail and touching the trams metalwork will provide less resistance and receive a shock, potentially enough to distrupt their heart and kill them. and we are talking less than 100 ma to do that! Not the 100s of amps a 25KV flashover would cause so they have to imediately drop the pole if that happens. (Dont electric drivers drop the pantographs if they suspect a derailment is happening to avoid OHL damage in any case?)

With regard to Ac and Dc. Ac is measured as RMS (root sq) of the acutal peak voltage thus 230v DC is just that whereas domestic 230v AC has peak voltage of about 320 volts thus potentially more energy to kill you which is why "safe" voltages are aways lower for Ac compared to DC
TBH anything over 110 volts is getting marginal on surviving,
one of my electrical lecturers in the early 80s also an experienced electrician on 3 phase switchgear was killed during our course changing a light bulb at his home while it was live
A sobering memory that instilled caution at an early age around electricity at all times
Off thread but hope that helps
 

royaloak

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So if the tram derails what are the wheels in contact with? If a person touches a metal part of the tram WHILE STANDING ON THE RAIL they may get a shock but the human body has quite a high resistance so most of the electricity will flow through the wheels to ground. Wouldn't like to test it though!
 
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