If there are no first class fares does this mean First Class is declassified?

[DDB]

A quick question.

Am I right in thinking that if the timetable doesn't show first class being available and the service is run with stock with a first class it is automatically declassified?

What about if the service isn't in the timetable?

I ask because I might go to the Lincoln Christmas market on the special train from Derby.
http://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/tickets-offers/Christmas/Lincoln-Christmas-Market/
When I look up the journey there are no first class fares on either East Midlands trains or national rail. Does this mean that if the service is run using an HST or meridian I can sit in first class with a standard ticket?

DDB

 

[34D]

A quick question.

Am I right in thinking that if the timetable doesn't show first class being available and the service is run with stock with a first class it is automatically declassified?

Depends on the TOC. NXEA not. Northern Rail yes. I do not know EMTs policy.

What about if the service isn't in the timetable?

I ask because I might go to the Lincoln Christmas market on the special train from Derby.
http://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/tickets-offers/Christmas/Lincoln-Christmas-Market/
When I look up the journey there are no first class fares on either East Midlands trains or national rail. Does this mean that if the service is run using an HST or meridian I can sit in first class with a standard ticket?

DDB

For a special train such as this, I would be surprised if you were allowed in First without paying a supplement on board.

Surely there _are_ first fares to cater for the once-daily Lincoln-St Panc train?

 

[wintonian]

The East Coast planner is showing it as having first class.

The existence or lack of first class fares between any 2 points on a service is irrelevant, for example I suspect a Birmingham to Grimsby first class ticket would be valid on it

 

[34D]

The existence or lack of first class fares between any 2 points on a service is irrelevant, for example I suspect a Birmingham to Grimsby first class ticket would be valid on it

Quite. For Nottingham to Lincoln you'll see there is some kind of £5.60 supplement in there.

 

[wintonian]

But that's only weekend first is it not?

 

[AlterEgo]

A quick question.

Am I right in thinking that if the timetable doesn't show first class being available and the service is run with stock with a first class it is automatically declassified?

What about if the service isn't in the timetable?

I ask because I might go to the Lincoln Christmas market on the special train from Derby.
http://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/tickets-offers/Christmas/Lincoln-Christmas-Market/
When I look up the journey there are no first class fares on either East Midlands trains or national rail. Does this mean that if the service is run using an HST or meridian I can sit in first class with a standard ticket?

DDB

No. The lack of a point-to-point fare for your journey is irrelevant. What matters is if it's shown in the timetable has having First Class accommodation.

In this case the service conveys First Class so it is not declassified.

 

[wintonian]

No. The lack of a point-to-point fare for your journey is irrelevant. What matters is if it's shown in the timetable has having First Class accommodation.

I think the issue is that the service is not in the (printed) timetable but appears in the journey planners. However the journey planners do show it as conveying first class.

 

[34D]

But that's only weekend first is it not?

I do not know. But the train in question is on a weekend....

 

[wintonian]

I do not know. But the train in question is on a weekend....

The EMT page linked to above says: :-?

Lincoln Christmas Market
Friday 7 December

The following train services will run in addition to the normal timetable on Friday 7 December

Trains To Lincoln

1045 from Derby, calling at Nottingham, arriving into Lincoln at 1157

1301 from Nottingham, arriving into Lincoln at 1400

1701 from Nottingham, arriving into Lincoln at 1750

 

[DDB]

I think the issue is that the service is not in the (printed) timetable but appears in the journey planners. However the journey planners do show it as conveying first class.

That is exactly the issue. I am thinking of taking the Saturday train so weekend first is a consideration. I don't see a first class fare when I look on journey planners (East Coast, East Midlands Trains, National Rail)

DDB

 

[wintonian]

That is exactly the issue. I am thinking of taking the Saturday train so weekend first is a consideration. I don't see a first class fare when I look on journey planners (East Coast, East Midlands Trains, National Rail)

DDB

A lack of a first class fare between any two points on a service including its start and end points does not mean that there is no first class on board. Another example is that a Worcester to Lincoln first class fare is available and passengers using such a ticket will not expect there to be standard class passengers in the same part of the train where it has not been declassified.

Taking today's 17.49 from Nottingham to Lincoln which is mentioned on the link you provided in post #1, you can see by looking at the attached image that this (and I expect all the ones on that page) service conveys first class.

If you wanted to travel in the first class accommodation (without buying an upgrade) you would need to either buy from a station further away or to one further away.