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If I were to run a company...

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harry42

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I have VERY mad thoughts sometimes but if I was to...
run a train company I would run this route: Blackpool-Liverpool-Manchester-Sheffield-Nottingham-Derby-Birmingham-London

run a coach company in Nottingham I would run these routes: Nottingham-Leicester. Nottingham-Mansfield-Worksop. Nottingham-Lincoln. Nottingham-Newark. Nottingham-Grantham. Nottingham-Melton and Oakham.

Why don't people run short distance coach journeys? E.g. Red Arrow Notts-Derby runs every 10 mins and is always full!

Anyone know?
 
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pjnathanail

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Loughborough
I have VERY mad thoughts sometimes but if I was to...
run a train company I would run this route: Blackpool-Liverpool-Manchester-Sheffield-Nottingham-Derby-Birmingham-London

run a coach company in Nottingham I would run these routes: Nottingham-Leicester. Nottingham-Mansfield-Worksop. Nottingham-Lincoln. Nottingham-Newark. Nottingham-Grantham. Nottingham-Melton and Oakham.

Why don't people run short distance coach journeys? E.g. Red Arrow Notts-Derby runs every 10 mins and is always full!

Anyone know?

Most of that rail route is already covered by existing services though. It would be classed as primarily abstractive. The only real market would be Blackpool direct to Nottingham etc assuming the existing services were still running.

With regards to the coaches, many of the journeys mentioned are provided by National Express, just on longer journies as opposed to dedicated coaches.

Nottingham-Leicester is covered by NatEx roughly once or twice and hour, although granted not clock face and often late. Trent Barton tried Leicester express with buses then coaches and that was a flop.

Nottingham-Worksop is covered by the train so you would struggle to compete on time. Fares would have to be low and I'm not convinced there is the demand

Nottingham Lincoln could be good, as there is no direct bus and the rail service is painfully slow when you stop at all stations. Perhaps this could link with Nottingham Newark and compete with the 90

Nottingham Grantham would have to work hard to compete on journey times and fares with the train, one (usually) non stop an hour, another local stopping. The A52 is also a major headache for operators, and your entire service could end up stuck on here when something major happens either here or on he M1

Nottingham to Melton and Oakham is covered by the 19

I work for a company who operates a large proportion of NatEx entire network, and we find most people use a coach for longer journies. The few that use it for shorter ones are being subsidised by the longer ones. Some of the routes, the coach would really be a limited stop bus. This has two problems, you have to get the critical mass if passengers to break even from fewer stops, so if the demand isn't there you have issues, and it has to have a fast route.

If it runs the same route as the regular bus, it doesn't matter that it is limited stop as it will get caught in the same traffic, but if it runs along a parallel A road or motorway an RTA or just rush hour could see the service go out of the window as happens on the red arrow.

I'm always interested in providing faster journey times, and one thing I think that we could do is emulate Spain where express buses run along major roads, but stop alongside these roads to allow local passengers to board. These stops are coupled with footbridges. This has a minimal time penalty but many passengers use it. Perhaps if we did this more local express services may be possible.
 

Squaddie

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I have VERY mad thoughts sometimes but if I was to...
run a train company I would run this route: Blackpool-Liverpool-Manchester-Sheffield-Nottingham-Derby-Birmingham-London
I don't really understand the thinking behind that. No-one travelling end-to-end would choose to take this service, because of the likely journey time, and all the intermediate journeys are already covered adequately by existing services.
 

edwin_m

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Red Arrow probably does well because Derby station is rather far from the city centre, because the train isn't particularly fast, and because Trent Barton are good at customer service.

Another popular coach route is London-Oxford. Here the train is relatively indirect and slow, whereas this is about the only road route with motorway (ish) standard right into inner London. Both Paddington and Oxford railway stations are poorly located.

National Express also run Nottingham-Heathrow, which is a real hassle by train, but whenever I've considered using it I've been put off by the journey being no quicker than tube plus rail, and the frequency being rather lower!
 

met331

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East Mids
if you really wanted to operate out of Nottingham a Nottingham- Newark - Lincoln- Skegness would clean up on a limited stop express coach service. The improved roads and comfortable coaches could edge out a train journey that is both slow and expensive. Lincoln - Skegness is a stagecoach bus route but it stops everywhere. An express coach could attract a decent catchment of passengers
 

Manchester77

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Just thinking now Virgins initial franchise has gone and they're on their extension temporary contract thingy does that mean the protection from competition regulation has gone. If so does that mean that alliance rail if they were to be granted paths for Blackpool - London they could use a more realistic route with a. Sorter journey time. (Obviously it wouldn't happen now that its likely post electrification it'll be incorporated into the next proper ICWC franchise)

Anyway my hypothetical train service, or should I say resurrected train service ;) -
Brighton to Glasgow. When I used 1S76 in the days before its death it always seemed fairly full. It'd go via Reading, Birmingham, Manchester just like it used to.
 

Deerfold

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Why don't people run short distance coach journeys? E.g. Red Arrow Notts-Derby runs every 10 mins and is always full!

But it's taken them 20 years to build it up to that level from 1 an hour in the early nineties.

It helps that they do passes valid on the rest of their network too - a lot of the popularity of this route is that it makes the bus far more competitive for longer journeys than catching the indigo or i4.

With regards to the coaches, many of the journeys mentioned are provided by National Express, just on longer journies as opposed to dedicated coaches.

I'm assuming you mean "journeys"?

Nottingham-Leicester is covered by NatEx roughly once or twice and hour, although granted not clock face and often late. Trent Barton tried Leicester express with buses then coaches and that was a flop.

Trentbarton may have had more luck if they'd run more than one a day. There's a not horrendous connection at East Midlands Airport if you do want to do it cheaper than with National Express.
 
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Eagle

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This seems like a very bad case of join-the-dots route planning. Try actually drawing some of these on a map and you'll see the problems. Not all services have to serve everywhere in the region.

Just thinking now Virgins initial franchise has gone and they're on their extension temporary contract thingy does that mean the protection from competition regulation has gone. If so does that mean that alliance rail if they were to be granted paths for Blackpool - London they could use a more realistic route with a. Sorter journey time.

Would be hard to see how Alliance could get the Blackpool market, being as Virgin's Blackpool services have tentatively been greenlighted for December 2013.
 

Manchester77

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I did say in the post it's unlikely because it looks as if its going to be incorporated into the ICWC franchise...
 

Manchester77

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Yeah but don't east coast only run something like 4 trains per day compared to the more frequent FHT service?
 
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