If Grand Central gets cancelled...

[Johnny Lewis]

I am booked on an Advance First ticket on the 10.22 Bradford Int to Kings Cross service tomorrow morning.

If this train is cancelled, will I be able to travel via Leeds on Northern / East Coast? And will I still be able to travel First Class?

Any advice greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[sonic2009]

Yes under advance tickets terms and conditions you will be able to travel on the next available service by Grand Central, unless grand central have sorted out other arrangements with other TOCs

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

speak to the GC staff at the station, they should be there giving out instructions... well, someone should be!!
DON'T just jump on the next service to Leeds for the EC to London, chances are you will get charged an hefty amount!!

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes under advance tickets terms and conditions you will be able to travel on the next available service or via Leeds. Grand Central have a duty to get you to your destination.

Strictly speaking, no and no. From the Advance Fares FAQ in the Manual.

Q22 - Can a passenger travel on any trains other than the one on which they are reserved, without changing the booking?
A: The following principles apply.

1). Start of the Journey. It is the passenger’s responsibility to turn up at the start of the journey in time for the first train. If they miss it due to problems parking, taxi not turning up etc, they must buy a new ticket;

2). Once the journey has begun. If the passenger is delayed and the rail industry or its partners (as shown below) is at fault, which should be checked with your Control Office, change to another train of the same company is allowed to get them to their destination with the least delay. This is irrespective of combinations of rail tickets held. Examples are:

Included: are passengers travelling on valid:


Through domestic or international tickets; e.g. BrightonScarborough route “TOC X & Connections”;

Through rail & partner tickets for which there is a through bus, tube, ferry or metro fare, e.g. Zone U12Leeds, Wisbech CoachYork; Ryde PierHull, etc;
Combination of domestic rail-only tickets

e.g. rail season ticket Skipton-Leeds plus Advance ticket Leeds-Peterborough; or adjoining Advance tickets;


Combination of domestic rail & partner tickets

e.g. BrightonZone U12 plus Advance ticket London-Manchester, or

e.g. Advance ticket Bristol-Paddington plus tube single ticket plus Advance ticket Kings Cross to Hull.

All-Zones Travelcard, PTE-products etc (where rail is included) plus Advance ticket;


Combination of Eurostar tickets into the UK and then either advance purchase tickets from London Terminals or “London Intnl CIV” or “Lndon Eurostar CIV”.

Not included: for the avoidance of doubt, are:


Non train-company travel on separate tickets e.g. journeys that commence on bus-only, tube-only, ferry-only or metro-only tickets. (This includes “PlusBus” which is a local day- Rover bus ticket, not compatible with a medium/ long distance ‘Advance’ single journey, so are kept as separate tickets); or

Tickets that cannot be read on-train e.g. smartcards (but allowable where electronically checked, delay verified and Advance ticket endorsed in Travel Centres).

Please note there is no change to:

a) Any other rules, e.g. trains stopping where tickets join together (NRCoC 19); nor

b) The need to verify that a passenger has been genuinely delayed en route, and ticket endorsed; nor

c) Any other passenger entitlements as defined by the NRCoC or CIV conditions; nor

d) General ATOC disruption guidance; nor

e) Your discretion in extreme circumstances!

In all cases, as a missed connection could be quite distant from your part of the country, where verified, please clearly endorse the ticket for colleagues ‘down the line’. Eurostar have also agreed to do this.

I would expect discretion to be shown, or for GC to try and get ticket acceptance on EC (they usually do). But you are not entitled to it.

 

[142094]

GC are normally quite good when things go wrong - indeed there is often a woman helping people onto the train at York (even when everything is on time), a bit like being an extra member of platform staff just for GC.

 

[attics26]

Yes under advance tickets terms and conditions you will be able to travel on the next available service or via Leeds. Grand Central have a duty to get you to your destination.

why would you give this advice ? you even destroy your own argument by saying GC have to get you there - thats the whole point GC have to NOT Northern or EC - Unless its the last service of the day or prior arrangements have been made between companies - the T&Cs say the next train same company.

 

[williamn]

If it's Grand Central there *is* a fair chance your train will be cancelled!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I am booked on an Advance First ticket on the 10.22 Bradford Int to Kings Cross service tomorrow morning.

If this train is cancelled, will I be able to travel via Leeds on Northern / East Coast? And will I still be able to travel First Class?

Any advice greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Go and speak to the GC staff at the station, they will have instructions for you. Do not just get on the next train.

If you are put on another GC service, you should get first class travel, if you are able to use EC, you may not be allowed to use first class.

 

[AndrewP]

This has happened to me - although having travelled regularly with GC they seem to be very reliable.

What happened for me was that they had staff issuing tickets for EC trains so you could get the next one. My ticket was reissued as an open first single.

When the line from Kings Cross was closed the tickets were valid on the trains from St Pancras.

I really like Grand Central even if their catering is terrible.

 

[John @ home]

if you are able to use EC, you may not be allowed to use first class.

That's an interesting theory.

I am booked on an Advance First ticket

This means the OP is not allowed to use any other class of accommodation.

Advance ticket terms and conditions

you must travel in the Class ... shown on the ticket(s).

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/advance_conditions.html

 

[Johnny Lewis]

Thankfully the train wasn't cancelled! There are 12 passengers in First Class, most of whom boarded at Halifax.

However, we are looking at a late arrival into Kings Cross, as the train appears now not to be running on full power. Pity, as it seems to waste a lot of time trundling between stations on the journey from Bradford to Doncaster, including arriving 10 minutes early at Pontefract Monkhill and sitting outside the station...

Still, I have had a pleasant journey and if I actually lived in Bradford, I would certainly favour using the direct service over NT/EC via Leeds, especially now a First Class ticket can be had for just £39 - cheapest on EC was £56-odd, unless I waited for the last two trains of the day from Leeds.

 

[jon0844]

Is it a 180? If so, have you checked to see if one or two of the engines are on fire? That'll slow you down!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

That's an interesting theory....

There have been times when passengers having to swap services because of a failure or line closure have been allowed to use another TOC, but only in standard class.

 

[LexyBoy]

That's an interesting theory.This means the OP is not allowed to use any other class of accommodation.

Wouldn't they be travelling under an agreement between the TOCs rather than using their ticket though?

2. Requirement to hold a ticket
Before you travel you must have a ticket or other authority to travel which is valid for the train(s) you intend to use and for the journey you intend to make.

Unless the passenger is re-issued with a new ticket valid for the EC train, they do not possess a valid ticket. Therefore I'd think that they are travelling using "authority to travel", which could surely be made for standard class but not first?

OTOH, GC would be fulfilling their contractual obligation to deliver the passenger to their destination, so perhaps a refund based on travelling in standard with a FC ticket would apply.

(Just my thoughts, happy to be proved wrong)

 

[mallard]

This means the OP is not allowed to use any other class of accommodation.

If the OP is given a new ticket for EC services by a GC representative, then the conditions of his original ticket aren't relevant. If the new ticket is standard class and he accepts it, then he has to travel in standard class.

 

[AlterEgo]

Unless the passenger is re-issued with a new ticket valid for the EC train, they do not possess a valid ticket. Therefore I'd think that they are travelling using "authority to travel", which could surely be made for standard class but not first?

These are my thoughts too. An "authority to travel" can be written or verbal, as an "authorised person has allowed travel without a valid ticket"...etc.