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if a bus breaks down ?

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newbie babs

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Missed my normal bus tonight so caught the next 20 minutes after, got just out of Sheffield city center where the previous bus I should have caught was broke down.
The driver had been trying to contact control for 20 minutes about his bus and no one was answering. 12 + passengers changed to the bus I was on.

My question is, does Control have a time limit to respond to a call from a bus driver.
 
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Welshman

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I shouldn't think so - I imagine the first responsibility of the driver is to get his/her passengers safely on to the following service, ensure the vehicle is well marked with hazard lights flashing, then settle-down and wait the breakdown truck.

I remember many years ago seeing an occasional broken-down RM or RT parked at the kerb in London with a seat cushion propped against the back of the bus near the entrance, and the driver and conductor sprawled out on the longitudinal seats enjoying an unexpected rest!

The cushion propped against the bus seemed to be a well-known sign for following traffic to overtake and not wait for it to pull out!
 

BestWestern

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No, there is no 'time limit' for a response from control, but I would have been mightily p!ssed off when I was doing the job if I'd had to wait that long!

Bus operators are nothing like the railway, there are nowhere near the same level of regulations or indeed professionalism. Control can pretty much get away with whatever they like. And PCV Drivers have no mechanical knowledge requirements wheras a train Driver would be expected to make some basic efforts at diagnosis. When a bus conks out it's just a case of put the hazards on and wait for the fitters to turn up!
 

tbtc

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Missed my normal bus tonight so caught the next 20 minutes after, got just out of Sheffield city center where the previous bus I should have caught was broke down.
The driver had been trying to contact control for 20 minutes about his bus and no one was answering. 12 + passengers changed to the bus I was on.

My question is, does Control have a time limit to respond to a call from a bus driver.

It wasn't the First SY B7L that broke down on Waingate around half five was it?

TBH I don't know about any time limits, that's not good though
 

90019

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And PCV Drivers have no mechanical knowledge requirements wheras a train Driver would be expected to make some basic efforts at diagnosis. When a bus conks out it's just a case of put the hazards on and wait for the fitters to turn up!

Would a train driver be required to go out on a busy line with other trains still passing to check things on or under the train that could be causing the problem?
 

BestWestern

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Would a train driver be required to go out on a busy line with other trains still passing to check things on or under the train that could be causing the problem?

I would certainly hope not! But however hazardous your average busy road is somebody has to go round the back of the bus, whether it's the Driver or the fitters.
 

newbie babs

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Whatever was wrong was at the front of the bus and I heard the driver say, control would have a fit if he drove it any further in case of accidents.
 

BestWestern

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Most of the big firms are reasonably conscious of the road traffic laws nowadays, but there are still plenty of short cuts going on out there!
 

90019

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I would certainly hope not! But however hazardous your average busy road is somebody has to go round the back of the bus, whether it's the Driver or the fitters.

Indeed, but the fitter will probably be in a van, which will most likely be used to create a safe area behind the bus for working on it.
Or it'll just be recovered and repaired elsewhere.
 

Statto

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Thinking about bus breakdowns on the long distance routes far away from the depot, some areas the company bay be big enough to have another depot nearby, but wonder if something like a First bus vehicle breaks down in Exeter on the X53 how long it'd take to recover the vehicle.
 

hairyhandedfool

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Would a train driver be required to go out on a busy line with other trains still passing to check things on or under the train that could be causing the problem?

A train driver would be expected to contact the signal box to get the appropriate line blocked if they are required to assess the condition of the train from the outside on a non-cess side, even if they 'know' no train is coming. This creates a safe enviroment to work in.
 

ChrisCooper

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I don't think it's at all fair to compare the mechanical competance of bus drivers over train drivers as they are totally different things. Train drivers knowledge is mostly going to be based around either resetting or isolating things. There isn't much on a bus you can isolate and have it still safe to drive, and resetting a bus is generally engine off, isolator off, isolator on, engine on. Beyond that there isn't much either a bus or train driver can do, lacking the tools and spairs, let alone the knowledge.
Also, coaches do tend to be different in this respect, as they can operate very long distances from their home depot. Drivers are usually trained far more in terms of basic maintenance, and they will carry far more equipment with them. Both companies I've done coach work for carry extra coolant, washer fluid, oil and usually things like fan belts, fuses and bulbs, plus basic tool kits to be able to use them, which the drivers know how to use.
 

Schnellzug

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I thought the normal procedure these days if there was the slightest fault with a Train was to cancel it and say "you'll have to get the next one".
 

notadriver

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Definitely agree with you Chris. Coach drivers will usually have a greater mechanical knowledge of their vehicle than a bus driver and be expected to fix things such as mirrors, bulbs, and the dreaded loo. It's one of the things that separates them from bus drivers.

Comparing buses and trains, don't forget any PCV licence holder can drive any bus straightaway without type training which is optional. All the need to be shown are basics like how to stop the engine in an emergency, how isolate, where the water/fuel etc, I reckon a 15 minute job for an experienced driver.

A traction conversion for an experienced driver can take at least 2 days - with an exam on the end. For trainee drivers 2 weeks per traction type is needed.
 

Nym

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Or a change of 'traction type' for a commercial freight driver (when I was doing it) was having the keys thrown at you in the office, "You're takin PO52 today!" being shouted at you and getting in and driving it, got halfway to the M60 before I found where the switch for the fridge was...!

Although not as bad as PK55, is funny when you're used to driving on a limiter it makes you kinda lazy, "Oh didn't know I could do 95 in one of these..." hehe

Also, the older gear didn't have cup holders, doesn't sound like much until you realise my first run was 3 1/2 hrs to the first drop, leaving at 4am, you need coffee!

But a significant amount of our depot's drivers had high levels of mechanical knowledge, the fact that about 50 - 65% of our drivers where Ex. RLC helped ;)
 

anthony263

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Definitely agree with you Chris. Coach drivers will usually have a greater mechanical knowledge of their vehicle than a bus driver and be expected to fix things such as mirrors, bulbs, and the dreaded loo. It's one of the things that separates them from bus drivers.

Comparing buses and trains, don't forget any PCV licence holder can drive any bus straightaway without type training which is optional. All the need to be shown are basics like how to stop the engine in an emergency, how isolate, where the water/fuel etc, I reckon a 15 minute job for an experienced driver.

A traction conversion for an experienced driver can take at least 2 days - with an exam on the end. For trainee drivers 2 weeks per traction type is needed.



Yes coach drivers always make sure to carry additional stuff and tools with them. If the bus breaks down its either park up safely and switch the engine off then get on the radio or mobile to the depot/control and ask for a fityter to come out ideally with a replacement bus.

That said I know of at least 2 buses breaking down because the driver had not bothered to check that the bus had enough coolant, that did cause a few eye brows to be raised when we passed them.
 

Crossover

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If the bus breaks down its either park up safely and switch the engine off.....

This assumes the engine is still running :P

I may have just got lucky but in 7 years of travelling by buses to and from school, I have only ever had 2 break down while I have been on it. In both cases I abandoned "ship" and walked.
In one case, the driver, from being stopped in traffic went to move off and the engine cut out and wouldn't restart (an ALX400 I think) - after rolling it back under gravity under supervision of (I believe) on off duty driver (or similarly competent person), there was no sign of anyone coming to our rescue so I walked home.

The other time was on a Yorkshire Traction (does anyone else recall these people? In later years went by the name Tracky!) it sounded like morse code due to low oil pressure. Driver eventually had to give in and me and others walked to another bus stop and got an Arriva service instead!
 

route101

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Ive had a fair few breakdowns on First Glasgow services . You just wait for the next service to turn up .
Week before Christmas i was on a Citylink coach from Edinburgh to Glasgow and broke down at maybury junction , i heard the driver on the radio to the depot which was Parks of Hamilton for a spare coach. Again just got on the next service.
 

BestWestern

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Definitely agree with you Chris. Coach drivers will usually have a greater mechanical knowledge of their vehicle than a bus driver and be expected to fix things such as mirrors, bulbs, and the dreaded loo. It's one of the things that separates them from bus drivers.

...And yet most private hire drivers are on even less than service bus drivers :roll:
 

BuhSnarf

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This assumes the engine is still running :P

I may have just got lucky but in 7 years of travelling by buses to and from school, I have only ever had 2 break down while I have been on it. In both cases I abandoned "ship" and walked.
In one case, the driver, from being stopped in traffic went to move off and the engine cut out and wouldn't restart (an ALX400 I think) - after rolling it back under gravity under supervision of (I believe) on off duty driver (or similarly competent person), there was no sign of anyone coming to our rescue so I walked home.

The other time was on a Yorkshire Traction (does anyone else recall these people? In later years went by the name Tracky!) it sounded like morse code due to low oil pressure. Driver eventually had to give in and me and others walked to another bus stop and got an Arriva service instead!


The Arriva 50 service that I catch to work regularly breaks down - most likely because they put the crappy old buses on this route.

Usually it's the case of wait for next bus, which can be a right pain when the frequency goes to hourly.

The bus once broke down whilst we were tootling down the 50 stretch of dual carriageway. Engine just cut out. That was a little scary.
 

ChrisCooper

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...And yet most private hire drivers are on even less than service bus drivers :roll:

Private hire though can often make up in tips and perks (for example free entry and often free meals at whatever place is being visited, even what are basically paid holidays). Plus it tends to be more flexable (many private hire drivers are part time) and less stressful than service work. Even when it's just school trips you have the teachers along too so they are usually well behaved.
 

driver9000

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I remember breaking down with a Trident late one Sunday night in a city centre, the depot inspectors locked up at 21:00 each night leaving us to work the night unsupervised. The garage was staffed by a cleaner and a night fitter. Having tried the out of hours number several times and no response from the garage or cleaning shed I was left with no other option than to ring the recovery contractor myself! I was waiting over 4 hours from break down to recovery. 5 hours in total to arrival back at the garage! I was not a happy bunny when the night fitter appeared and it turned out he had been ignoring the phone.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Would a train driver be required to go out on a busy line with other trains still passing to check things on or under the train that could be causing the problem?

We would only work on the outside of the train once other lines were blocked to traffic or if the problem was known to be cess side and our train would provide protection from other trains.
 
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Schnellzug

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Another thing that they used to do in the Old Days (TM); have their own recovery vehicle. I remember that one coach company up the road had a Detroit Diesel engined Bedford TM; you'd see that from time to time with a Leyland National in tow.
Although actually some still do, or at least have one from a contractor at the garage on standby. Wilts & Dorset seem to have one at Poole.
 

ChrisCooper

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A few companies still have their own recovery vehicles, but not many now. Often they were converted from buses, cut down double deckers being most common. The problem is the cost of keeping them, tax, MOT maintenance, and also the training costs (no use if you don't have at least one member of staff who can drive it).

One thing these days is that buses, like trains, tend to be more reliable, but when they do break down there is often much less that can be done. Many problems also require a lot of skill, knowledge and equipment to deal with. Also in both industries, things to get you home, and expecially to get the passengers where they need to be, tend to be very much frowned upon. To be honest though in both cases it's often warrented, given the different environment today, including higher speeds and more traffic.

Another thing is that older recovery vehicles, especially bus conversions, tended to use a tow bar. These days that's still legal but tends to be looked down on, so recoveries are usually suspended tow. Not surprising really, for bar towing you need someone in the bus cab to steer it and ideally operate the brakes. No engine means no power steering, and modern buses are almost undrivable without (the last Atlanteans, VRs and Fleetlines without power steering were bad enough, modern buses are heavier and the gearing on the steering is designed for power assistance). Not ideal either, the towing vehicle stops quick and unless the bus driver can get the handbrake on quick then it can be messy. Also it's no good if there are problems with the wheels or axles. Oviously though a proper suspended tow truck, whilst much better, is a hell of a lot more expensive than just chopping down an old bus.

Of cource TFL have their own fleet of tow trucks positioned all over London.
 

newbie babs

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I am not sure the bus drivers are supposed to do anything to the bus even if they know what to do, I am sure the driver knew what was wrong but told the other driver, due to health and safety he would have to wait.
I don`t know but perhaps their insurance only covers them to drive and not to do repairs.

That would be the better option though so to get the bus sorted in case they are parked for hours but probably not the cheapest option.
We always get the older buses on my route anyway
 
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