IETs on XC

[Trainbike46]

More capacity. Plus those 170s could be useful elsewhere, unlike the 22x.

Or are you saying the price difference is so great, you might as well order brand new 170 replacements?

22x are not great for capacity due to their inefficient layout, for example a 3 car 170 has ~190 seats (source: https://eversholtrail.co.uk/fleet/class-170-and-171/), while a 4 car 220 has 200 seats

I don't have inside knowledge of costs, so take the below with a grain of salt

but 22x are expensive, due to their high fuel use per car, as well as probably not insignificant lease costs
Even if the cost per car was the same (and I suspect it would be higher), the fact you need an extra 33% in vehicles for the same capacity means they will be very expensive per seat.

So buying a new bimode that is 170-style would probably be cheaper (let's get some more 755s!)

 

[Kite159]

Where would they need to maintain 125mph? It's only the electrified sections that are intensively used with 125mph stock, where acceleration to 125mph will matter.

On Birmingham-Derby and Bromsgrove-Gloucester, there's only around 4tph, and the other trains are 170s. And south of Bristol, I would have thought pathing would be easier if sectional running times were comparable with GWR 80X.

Remember on the Cross City line in Birmingham, only the slow lines are wired on the 4 track section from Kings Norton towards Longbridge. Although in theory it shouldn't be an expensive job to wire up the fast lines if XC gets bimodal trains (and can run on electric to Bromsgrove)

 

[Benjwri]

Although in theory it shouldn't be an expensive job to wire up the fast lines if XC gets bimodal trains (and can run on electric to Bromsgrove)

The OHLE looks like it was only ever species for the slow lines, I’m almost 100% certain those posts woild not be able to carry another line. In which case it becomes extraordinarily expensive, in that the ole OHLE has to be ripped up, new OHLE install, which likely will either mean long closures or the lines not being able to accept electric trains for a while.

 

[The Planner]

Where would they need to maintain 125mph? It's only the electrified sections that are intensively used with 125mph stock, where acceleration to 125mph will matter.

On Birmingham-Derby and Bromsgrove-Gloucester, there's only around 4tph, and the other trains are 170s. And south of Bristol, I would have thought pathing would be easier if sectional running times were comparable with GWR 80X.

You are ignoring freight between Birmingham and Derby, between Kingsbury and Burton once you are going you are going and it limits the slots.

Remember on the Cross City line in Birmingham, only the slow lines are wired on the 4 track section from Kings Norton towards Longbridge. Although in theory it shouldn't be an expensive job to wire up the fast lines if XC gets bimodal trains (and can run on electric to Bromsgrove)

The OHLE looks like it was only ever species for the slow lines, I’m almost 100% certain those posts woild not be able to carry another line. In which case it becomes extraordinarily expensive, in that the ole OHLE has to be ripped up, new OHLE install, which likely will either mean long closures or the lines not being able to accept electric trains for a while.

Midlands Rail Hub will likely wire the fasts when they do the Up Gloucester Slow from Barnt Green.

 

[MattRat]

22x are not great for capacity due to their inefficient layout, for example a 3 car 170 has ~190 seats (source: https://eversholtrail.co.uk/fleet/class-170-and-171/), while a 4 car 220 has 200 seats

I don't have inside knowledge of costs, so take the below with a grain of salt

but 22x are expensive, due to their high fuel use per car, as well as probably not insignificant lease costs
Even if the cost per car was the same (and I suspect it would be higher), the fact you need an extra 33% in vehicles for the same capacity means they will be very expensive per seat.

So buying a new bimode that is 170-style would probably be cheaper (let's get some more 755s!)

Or more IETs to bring the unit cost down? I just think the 170s can be better used elsewhere. Also simplifies rolling stock, which gives a whole host of benefits.

 

[D365]

I can never fail to be impressed at how many speculative discussions all seem to converge on Voyagers…

 

[Annetts key]

I can never fail to be impressed at how many speculative discussions all seem to converge on Voyagers…

In an ideal world, I’d like Voyagers to converge on a scrapyard…

 

[zwk500]

In an ideal world, I’d like Voyagers to converge on a scrapyard…

A few years ago, you could have given them to Clarkson, Hammond and May and asked them to find a creative end for them

 

[MattRat]

A few years ago, you could have given them to Clarkson, Hammond and May and asked them to find a creative end for them

Maybe do a reverse Pacer. A train into a bus. A trackless bus, if you will.

 

[Anonymous10]

A few years ago, you could have given them to Clarkson, Hammond and May and asked them to find a creative end for them

Who says you still couldn't may and Hammond both have YouTube channels that clarkson features on

 

[D365]

A few years ago, you could have given them to Clarkson, Hammond and May and asked them to find a creative end for them

Chicken shed maybe!

 

[zwk500]

I was thinking Carriage conkers, tbh...

 

[Annetts key]

I was thinking Carriage conkers, tbh...

I think that means that this carriage, err topic, has derailed

 

[Trainbike46]

In an ideal world, I’d like Voyagers to converge on a scrapyard…

Same!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Mar 2023 ==

Or more IETs to bring the unit cost down? I just think the 170s can be better used elsewhere. Also simplifies rolling stock, which gives a whole host of benefits.

IETs still couldn't run the stansted airport route (as it requires sprinter differentials, which the IETs don't have either), so you would still need two fleets. Alternatively you could transfer that route to a different operator