IET's grounded - what would you run?

[vdriud]

BR had a dual-sourcing policy after BREL was privatised, but that didn't necessarily work too well.
There were problems with one or other of the split fleets for Super Sprinters (155/156) and Networkers (465/466) and others.
HSTs were equipped with two types of engine and electrical equipment.
Every repeat 80x order also reduces the overall fleet costs and improved productivity at the maintenance depots

I have sympathy with that view, but 2 weeks is a long way in the future in the context of the current problem.

Even if the crew knowledge, PTI, clearance and safety case issues can be sorted, the major problem remains of what is used to replace the Castles on their current Cardiff-Taunton-Penzance work?

The remaining tfw and retired gwr pacers should be sent to Exeter to work Exmouth to Paignton services. This frees up the 150s for use on penzance services and castles to Cornwall to London services. Seems an easy solution.

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Suggested on another thread that there's one at Exeter New Yard. No idea if that's correct.

One parked in Gloucester barnwood goods loop as well

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Should start to see some trains starting to return to service over the next few days.

All TOCs have met with DFT and Orr today to agree a process for going forward, this will allow units to enter service with the cracks in place but with a process in place to monitor and ensure it is still safe for train to be in service.
Not aware of any process to repair yet.

 

[Darandio]

castles to Cornwall to London services. Seems an easy solution.

As noted countless times in the thread already, this is far from easy.

 

[vdriud]

As noted countless times in the thread already, this is far from easy.

What is hard about it? Exeter guards and drivers are still passed for 143s and there are some at Landore and there were 3 at PM?

If humans can put a man on the moon then we can run 143s on Exmouth to Paignton services.

The railway has become so risk adverse as to be useless at the moment.

 

[Quakkerillo]

What is hard about it? Exeter guards and drivers are still passed for 143s and there are some at Landore and there were 3 at PM?

If humans can put a man on the moon then we can run 143s on Exmouth to Paignton services.

The railway has become so risk adverse as to be useless at the moment.

I'd like to remind you of post 1523 by our Moderating team saying that this thread is not meant for ideas on how to solve the logistics to keep the railway running with alternative arrangements, but do that in the thread specifically for that.

Mod note - now moved into correct thread.

 

[vdriud]

But if the same people die on the roads because they can’t travel by train - that is ok.

Totally agree with this. The risk of injury or death by rail must be balanced by risk of transfer to road transport.

 

[TheLastMinute]

What is hard about it? Exeter guards and drivers are still passed for 143s and there are some at Landore and there were 3 at PM?

Are they? I think they were withdrawn mid December and I believe from other posts that traction knowledge expires after 6 months so it's pushing it.

Also, the 3 GWR units were reported in another thread as being sold to the West Somerset kept in warm storage on the Marsh but that was in March.

I’ve seen reports the three GWR franchise asset units 617/8/9 are sold to the West Somerset Railway, anyone heard more on this?

According to a post on WNXX recently, all three of the remaining 143s (143617/618/619) are still at SPM and occasionally have their engines turned on.

How many TfW 143 units are at Landore? I know there's a chance they may be common heritage from Wales & West days, but could they be used by GWR crew as is?

It would also be politically difficult to take a massive step backwards and be running by themselves. For all of last year, they were always coupled to a DDA compliant 150.

 

[vdriud]

Are they? I think they were withdrawn mid December and I believe from other posts that traction knowledge expires after 6 months so it's pushing it.

Also, the 3 GWR units were reported in another thread as being sold to the West Somerset kept in warm storage on the Marsh but that was in March.





How many TfW 143 units are at Landore? I know there's a chance they may be common heritage from Wales & West days, but could they be used by GWR crew as is?

It would also be politically difficult to take a massive step backwards and be running by themselves. For all of last year, they were always coupled to a DDA compliant 150.

I saw the last 143 leave Exeter to Exmouth at the end of December. This means crews still have traction knowledge.

I'm sure the WSR would lend the units to GWR. A 143 on the Devon metro is better than no direct service to London.

This whole situation is getting silly now. I've been really inconvenienced all week due to the lack of through services.

I don't think many on here understand the types of conversations going on in regards public expenditure savings at the treasury at the moment. The railway needs to prove its worth investing in. The last 5 days makes people ask Christian Wolmar's famous question "what are the railways for".

If the railways are unable to run trains and offer sensible journey times then what are they for? Why should the UK invest in them. Autonomous cars are a real threat to rail medium to long term.

 

[hexagon789]

Ah okay no worries. I didn’t mean to come across as patronising and apologise if I did.

Not at all, I didn't take that way. I was more than glad someone pointed out my error and clarified things.

 

[randyrippley]

Seems an ideal time to ramp up the class 769 conversions and use them on Paddington-Taunton services.
If this mess is really going to last 12 months they're the only hope of stand-in bimode units. Even if it takes a couple of months to get them in place it would be worth doing

 

[XAM2175]

If humans can put a man on the moon then we can run 143s on Exmouth to Paignton services.

Yes, because a massive scientific and technical project that was treated as being of immense national importance to a global superpower and that ended up costing somewhere in the vicinity of 137 billion pounds is absolutely the most suitable comparison to the present circumstances

 

[TheLastMinute]

Seems an ideal time to ramp up the class 769 conversions and use them on Paddington-Taunton services.
If this mess is really going to last 12 months they're the only hope of stand-in bimode units. Even if it takes a couple of months to get them in place it would be worth doing

The 769s are the only hope? Things are a lot worse than I thought!

A quick read of the various 769 threads would show they haven't had the smoothest introduction into service. 2 GWRs units have been in Reading a good few months and haven't started their fault free running tests yet.

 

[Non Multi]

Non stop Paddington - Reading 345s on the mains would be my first move, taking pressure off the relief stoppers. Not the first time 345s have run to cover for GWR units, a 'preview' service was organised to free some 387s to be modified for HEX.

 

[popeter45]

345's can only do 90mph so would be useless on the main

 

[TheLastMinute]

345's can only do 90mph so would be useless on the main

But then I suspect track capacity isn't a problem on the GWML at present!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Seems an ideal time to ramp up the class 769 conversions and use them on Paddington-Taunton services.
If this mess is really going to last 12 months they're the only hope of stand-in bimode units. Even if it takes a couple of months to get them in place it would be worth doing

Doesn't have to be bi-modes - DMUs will do in an emergency.

 

[PHILIPE]

I saw the last 143 leave Exeter to Exmouth at the end of December. This means crews still have traction knowledge.

I'm sure the WSR would lend the units to GWR. A 143 on the Devon metro is better than no direct service to London.

This whole situation is getting silly now. I've been really inconvenienced all week due to the lack of through services.

I don't think many on here understand the types of conversations going on in regards public expenditure savings at the treasury at the moment. The railway needs to prove its worth investing in. The last 5 days makes people ask Christian Wolmar's famous question "what are the railways for".

If the railways are unable to run trains and offer sensible journey times then what are they for? Why should the UK invest in them. Autonomous cars are a real threat to rail medium to long term.

Some could have been stripped of parts so they wouldn't get far

 

[randyrippley]

Doesn't have to be bi-modes - DMUs will do in an emergency.

but we have a shortage nationally of DMUs, but plenty of spare EMUs with the 319s available for conversion

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345's can only do 90mph so would be useless on the main

90mph is better than no train

 

[Bletchleyite]

but we have a shortage nationally of DMUs, but plenty of spare EMUs with the 319s available for conversion

If there's 319s the answer is probably to run them under the wires as they are rather than faff about converting them.

 

[randyrippley]

If there's 319s the answer is probably to run them under the wires as they are rather than faff about converting them.

but what's needed is stuff that can run OFF the wires. There's plenty of stock going spare that can run under the wires but only the 319s have a conversion route to run them where they are needed: off the wires

 

[popeter45]

90mph is better than no train

not really when there are 110mph capable 387's spare to run main services like whats happening right now

 

[D365]

But if the same people die on the roads because they can’t travel by train - that is ok.

The railway doesn’t have control over that. But you can bet that somebody will try to hold the railway to account if they lose a loved one by means of window hanging.

 

[HSTEd]

345's can only do 90mph so would be useless on the main

What is there available that can run significantly faster?
At most the 387s, but they are 110mph only and they will be needed further west.

 

[Horizon22]

If this does go on for a considerably long time, then start bustituting the Thames Valley branches in the following order
1. Windsor
2. Greenford (its practically dead right now anyway)
3. Marlow/Bourne End
4. Henley

Use these 4 Turbos, further West to complement the services starting at Swindon.

Utilising some of the many Old Oak Common 345 sets to run fast from Paddington to Reading. Yes they're 90mph max, but besides HeX services and the current 1tph Swindon service, they can be woven into a pretty empty Main Line. Alternatively, let TfL take on the GWR semi-fast Didcot services as far as Reading and use the spare Turbos that I've mentioned above for a Didcot - Reading all stops shuttle. Deploy the 387s on more fast Paddington - Swindon services and/or wherever else they can be run.

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not really when there are 110mph capable 387's spare to run main services like whats happening right now

There's not an endless supply!

 

[RobShipway]

If this does go on for a considerably long time, then start bustituting the Thames Valley branches in the following order
1. Windsor
2. Greenford (its practically dead right now anyway)
3. Marlow/Bourne End
4. Henley

Use these 4 Turbos, further West to complement the services starting at Swindon.

Utilising some of the many Old Oak Common 345 sets to run fast from Paddington to Reading. Yes they're 90mph max, but besides HeX services and the current 1tph Swindon service, they can be woven into a pretty empty Main Line. Alternatively, let TfL take on the GWR semi-fast Didcot services as far as Reading and use the spare Turbos that I've mentioned above for a Didcot - Reading all stops shuttle. Deploy the 387s on more fast Paddington - Swindon services and/or wherever else they can be run.

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There's not an endless supply!

I would agree with the above, accept if Chiltern have spare Turbos then I would be using those on the branches instead of using buses.

 

[cactustwirly]

If this does go on for a considerably long time, then start bustituting the Thames Valley branches in the following order
1. Windsor
2. Greenford (its practically dead right now anyway)
3. Marlow/Bourne End
4. Henley

Use these 4 Turbos, further West to complement the services starting at Swindon.

Utilising some of the many Old Oak Common 345 sets to run fast from Paddington to Reading. Yes they're 90mph max, but besides HeX services and the current 1tph Swindon service, they can be woven into a pretty empty Main Line. Alternatively, let TfL take on the GWR semi-fast Didcot services as far as Reading and use the spare Turbos that I've mentioned above for a Didcot - Reading all stops shuttle. Deploy the 387s on more fast Paddington - Swindon services and/or wherever else they can be run.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 May 2021 ==



There's not an endless supply!

Windsor is the busiest of the branches, so the one that should be last to be bustituted .

Greenford should be the first, as it is by far the least used

 

[yorksrob]

Wouldn't it be better to draft in the remaining 144's to the Thames branches, rather than bustitute.

 

[A0]

Wouldn't it be better to draft in the remaining 144's to the Thames branches, rather than bustitute.

Apart from the fact they aren't cleared for use on those branches and the drivers / guards aren't cleared for them as they've never been allocated to their depots...... Would take weeks to sort that out.

Far better to RRB the branches which are relatively lightly used and in Windsor's case there is another rail route with regular services on.

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Windsor is the busiest of the branches, so the one that should be last to be bustituted .

Greenford should be the first, as it is by far the least used

But Windsor has an alternative rail link with regular services on. Ticket easement should be straightforward.

Greenford should be a no brainer - the Central line is in close proximity as are local bus services.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

GWR

• Run regular 12-car fast Class 387 services between Paddington/Didcot and Paddington/Newbury
• Serve Newbury - Bedwyn with a Class 165 shuttle
• Run an hourly Castle HST service between Didcot and Penzance via Swindon and Westbury (Melksham would be bustituted as a result)
• Run an hourly Didcot - Bristol TM service via Bath using Class 165/166s
• Operate all Oxford/Worcester services using Class 165/166s and curtail at Didcot in the up direction
• Operate Swindon - Cheltenham as a Class 165 shuttle
• Use whatever IETs there are to cover Reading - Swansea

LNER

• Use a mixture of Class 91s and 365s brought back into service, and start services from Peterborough if there aren’t enough to cover the journey back from London.

TPE

• Split the Newcastle - Liverpool/Manchester Airport service at York, using Class 397s towards the former and 185s to the latter.

Excellent suggestions here - the only thing I'd do though is extend the 387's to and from Swindon then run Castle trains from there to and from Penzance. 387's do 110mph - Castle HST's I guess 100mph and Turbos 90mph.

 

[Horizon22]

Windsor is the busiest of the branches, so the one that should be last to be bustituted .

Greenford should be the first, as it is by far the least used

But it’s also the shortest, so easiest to get a bus on from Slough.

 

[RobShipway]

But it’s also the shortest, so easiest to get a bus on from Slough.

Having lived in Slough for 5 years I would have to agree with the above comment. The Bus station for Slough as I remember has since been knocked down and rebuilt. But the bus station I believe is still across the road from the train station. I am sure it used to be 8 and/or 8a that used to travel to Windsor from Slough with First Berkshire Bus.