IEP seating - comfortable seating please, unlike Voyagers!

[Class 33]

I know there's another thread about the IEP trains. But this one is started to talk about specifically what the seating conditions of these trains could be like, rather than all the other aspects of these trains.

With the upcoming IEP trains, I'm a little concerned that the seating could well be very similar to those awful Voyagers and Pendolino's. Hand plastic like seating, and with many seats that don't line up with the windows! Let's hope not!

There will be many of these trains entering service from 2016 onwards. And once introduced they will be around for 30/40 years or more. So please let's hope they are comfortable trains to travel in, and not another Voyager or Pendolino type clones! I find the seating of the Class 180 Adelente's very comfortable, but the Voyagers and Pendolino's bloody awful! And not suitable for long intercity journeys.

It would be useful if we could pass on our opinions to the makers of these new trains(is it Hitachi?). And/or perhaps a good idea is for them to design a prototype example of what the internals of the carriages and the seating will be like, and for the public to give them their opinions.

 

[junglejames]

Whilst i agree the voyagers and pendos have awful seats, the problem will be, different people find different seats comfy. Some people actually like the seats on voyagers/ pendos, and with everybody else, some will like one type of seat, and some wont.
The 175/ 180s do have comfortable seats as far as the shape of them goes, but for long journeys I like seats with plenty of padding. Something the 175/180s dont offer.
The most comfortable seats for me, are the IC70s, virtually all seats found in a Mk2 (esp all ex Virgin Mk2s), the original 158 seats (sadly no longer seem to be about), and now the 159s (was pleasantly surprised when i travelled on these).
They have lovely padding, and the backs of the seats are of an adequate shape/ profile.
No other seats offer enough padding to offer enough comfort for me for long journeys, although I do just put up with the GNER Mallard refurbs.

 

[TomJ93]

It's quite a personal preference, I like 390, 220/1 , EMT HST's and EMT 156 seating as well as 350/1 seating.

I think leg room is a more important issue, as that is what I find makes me uncomfortable more than the actual seat.

 

[Geezertronic]

390 seats are fine with me (cannot comment on the 22x seats) although I expect the IEP Standard class seats to be slightly wider than those on the 390s due to the IEP coaches being slightly wider because it does not have to accomodate the tilt profile?

 

[starrymarkb]

I don't like IC70s, 158 and Voyager seats are fine for me.

Don't like the abominations on EC and XC HSTs

 

[RichW1]

No chance of seats aligning with windows I'm afraid. these will be 8 car trains with others being 5 and 5+5 at peak time right?

Well that's just going to be too short on great Western so they'll have to cram them in. 5+5 might give enough seating but of course that won't be the only formation they work in. It's also forgotten that the seating arrangment will impacted upon from the existing 8 car fleets because parts of those will be the drivers cab areas if we're not going for an engine at either end. Seating will be disasterous I feel just as all Intercity's are today in my view.

 

[43021HST]

I know there's another thread about the IEP trains. But this one is started to talk about specifically what the seating conditions of these trains could be like, rather than all the other aspects of these trains.

With the upcoming IEP trains, I'm a little concerned that the seating could well be very similar to those awful Voyagers and Pendolino's. Hand plastic like seating, and with many seats that don't line up with the windows! Let's hope not!

There will be many of these trains entering service from 2016 onwards. And once introduced they will be around for 30/40 years or more. So please let's hope they are comfortable trains to travel in, and not another Voyager or Pendolino type clones! I find the seating of the Class 180 Adelente's very comfortable, but the Voyagers and Pendolino's bloody awful! And not suitable for long intercity journeys.

It would be useful if we could pass on our opinions to the makers of these new trains(is it Hitachi?). And/or perhaps a good idea is for them to design a prototype example of what the internals of the carriages and the seating will be like, and for the public to give them their opinions.

Knowing sods law and the cheap budget thts being spent on them, their not going to have enough coaches for what there designed for, so its going to be a classic case of sardine technology. I'm blighted with long legs so I have to put up with crappy seating at the price of crushing my knees. I really wish trains were designed by railwaymen not accountants.

 

[mumrar]

I don't like IC70s, 158 and Voyager seats are fine for me.

Don't like the abominations on EC and XC HSTs

I can't quite believe that about XC HSTs. I can fall asleep in an instant, feels like business class compared to other things running around.

 

[WestCoast]

The preferred style of seating is very subjective indeed, some people prefer more upright seating, some prefer a more relaxed angle. Some prefer thinner cushions, some prefer thicker. I could go on and on...

My mother likes the Desiro seating for long journeys, found on the 185s, 350s and 444/450s, because it makes you sit up straight and she has a back condition that is less painful if you sit in this way. Whereas I have heard many complaints about the so called 'cheap' seating on these trains in the past..

The seating East Coast use is also quite upright as well, but I have no problems with it. XC use a decent model of seating on their HSTs.

I find the seating of the Class 180 Adelente's very comfortable

I don't like the adelante seating all that much. My opinion is that this type of seating (padding in particular) is NOT more supportive than either the Pendos and Voyagers. I don't think that the IC70 is particularly supportive either.

I find the seating in the pendos, voyagers perfectly acceptable in terms of comfort and the first class version of the seat very comfortable indeed.

 

[Pumbaa]

390 seats are fine with me (cannot comment on the 22x seats)

Exactly the same so you can!

 

[MCR247]

222 seats are the most comfortable seats I have ever traveled on. It is the 'wings' that I like, makes it easier to sleep

 

[bnm]

No chance of seats aligning with windows I'm afraid. these will be 8 car trains with others being 5 and 5+5 at peak time right?

Well that's just going to be too short on great Western so they'll have to cram them in. 5+5 might give enough seating but of course that won't be the only formation they work in. It's also forgotten that the seating arrangment will impacted upon from the existing 8 car fleets because parts of those will be the drivers cab areas if we're not going for an engine at either end. Seating will be disasterous I feel just as all Intercity's are today in my view.

26 metre coaches don't forget.

 

[Daimler]

Considering the fact that the trains will be made by Hitachi (unless Alstom/Siemens/Bombardier kick up a big fuss and cause significant delays to the project - we can but hope!), we shall perhaps see seats not too dissimilar to those in the 395s - perhaps with a slightly more luxurious 'intercity' style.

If so, that's no bad thing, as I've always found the seats in 395s quite comfortable. Certainly more so than the awful things in the 390s & Voyagers (why is the seatback at its narrowest at the bottom/back of the sqaub? Is the intention to make you feel perched on top rather than in the seat? Also, why don't the 390s have armrests on the 'window' side?).

 

[Pumbaa]

222 seats are the most comfortable seats I have ever traveled on. It is the 'wings' that I like, makes it easier to sleep

God I can agree. They are fabulous seats, they have the best FC seats on the network easily. I find the 390 seats in Standard just as comfortable, as well as the Grammar seats fitted to fGW HSTs and EMT 158s.

 

[Daimler]

God I can agree. They are fabulous seats, they have the best FC seats on the network easily. I find the 390 seats in Standard just as comfortable, as well as the Grammar seats fitted to fGW HSTs and EMT 158s.

It's amazing to what an extent opinions differ here!

While I hate the seats on the 390s (as I mentioned above), I find the seats fitted to the EMT 158s and the FGW HSTs extremely comfortable - probably the best seats running on the network today (however odd that may sound!).

I've actually never been on a 222 in first class, but I'm particularly fond of the (Primarius?) seating found in first on FGW HSTs and EC trains.

 

[Pumbaa]

The Primarius is fine on fabric, but the leather versions are absolutely awful. Its like covering your sofa in baby oil and then wondering why you keep ending up on your arse in the aisle everytime you try and shift position or the train goes round a corner at any speed higher than 4mph...

 

[asylumxl]

Oh grand! Another pointless thread about "good seating", with the usual Voyager/Pendo bashing and IC70 bumming.

EnthusiastS do really seem to be ignorant of the fact the railways aren't run for them, and that things like seats are highly subjective. The vast majority of passengers won't be bothered.

Even stranger is commenting on a train that doesn't even exist yet..

Do we really need a new thread everytime somebody decides they don't like certain seats?

It gets incredibly boring and grating very quickly

If you don't like the seating, you don't have to use the train then.

 

[Daimler]

Oh grand! Another pointless thread about "good seating", with the usual Voyager/Pendo bashing and IC70 bumming.

EnthusiastS do really seem to be ignorant of the fact the railways aren't run for them, and that things like seats are highly subjective. The vast majority of passengers won't be bothered.

Do we really need a new thread everytime somebody decides they don't like certain seats?

It gets incredibly boring and grating very quickly

If you don't like the seating, you don't have to use the train then.

If you don't like the thread, don't read it - it's not even about someone finding seats uncomfortable, it's about what the seats on the most significant new train order in 35-40 years will be like! I think you'll find that passengers do care about the seats - simply look at when 450s were moved onto the Portsmouth line - many complaints were lodged and SWT had to investigate the matter.

And I find your constant anti-enthusiast rants quite dull, frankly. The vast majority of the enthusiasts on here can appreciate that the railways aren't run for them and discuss things in an open and intelligent manner. Your apparent disdain for railway enthusiasts is rather sad - we all like railways on RailUK, surely - that's why we're here!

 

[WestCoast]

Oh grand! Another pointless thread about "good seating", with the usual Voyager/Pendo bashing and IC70 bumming.

Your right about the "good seating" bit - with so many opinions it doesn't exist.

IC70 I don't think are comfortable when compared to newer models - too low for adequate neck support.

 

[asylumxl]

How is commenting on/criticising the seats on a train that doesn't even exist remotely constructive or intelligent?

 

[tbtc]

Lets face it, whatever seats these units have, they'll not suit some enthusiasts, they'll be too soft/hard/laid=back/upright etc... The arm rests will be too big/too small, the carpet will be the wrong colour.

The fact that we can't agree on what we like (from existing seats) should tell us this

 

[WestCoast]

Lets face it, whatever seats these units have, they'll not suit some enthusiasts, they'll be too soft/hard/laid=back/upright etc... The arm rests will be too big/too small, the carpet will be the wrong colour.

The fact that we can't agree on what we like (from existing seats) should tell us this

They will be replacing HSTs, so the opinions on RAILUK will be unfavourable to a certain extent no matter how good the trains actually are.

 

[Failed Unit]

If you don't like the seating, you don't have to use the train then.

and don't travel :-/ joe public may care and have no choice but to use the train! To me I find legroom the killer issue rather than seat comfort.

 

[bnm]

Lets face it, whatever seats these units have, they'll not suit some enthusiasts, they'll be too soft/hard/laid=back/upright etc... The arm rests will be too big/too small, the carpet will be the wrong colour.

Hear hear. (My thoughts are expressed in my forum signature↓)

 

[asylumxl]

and don't travel :-/ joe public may care and have no choice but to use the train! To me I find legroom the killer issue rather than seat comfort.

I often commute 4-5 days a week to London. Yes, legroom and comfort are important, but to be honest most people are happy just to find a seat on a busy service.

 

[bnm]

simply look at when 450s were moved onto the Portsmouth line - many complaints were lodged and SWT had to investigate the matter.

And the outcome of that 'investigation'? IIRC, experts in ergonomics concluded there was nothing wrong with the seats.

 

[Daimler]

And the outcome of that 'investigation'? IIRC, experts in ergonomics concluded there was nothing wrong with the seats.

Indeed. However, I was using that as an example to show that passengers do care about the comfort level of their seats, so I'm not sure why that's relevant. The passengers found the seats uncomfortable, they complained (proving that they did care) - the outcome of the investigation has no bearing on that fact.

 

[Failed Unit]

I often commute 4-5 days a week to London. Yes, legroom and comfort are important, but to be honest most people are happy just to find a seat on a busy service.

Very true on a commuter service hence why London overground have gone to maximise the standing room. It is a big deal on inter-city type stocks which could move people towards air or coach between say Newcastle and London, depending if you are time sensitive or not. On my 20 minute commute they can get away with most things as you stay. People put up with ryanair for short hops, but would put up with those conditions for longer journeys?

 

[j0hn0]

If the iep carriages are as wide as mk3s (which i suspect they will be) then the seats will be wide enough for me.

Not having to tilt would mean that people arent hanging out onto the aisle. Have a look back down a voyager or pendo, everyone is hanging out.
Im always catching people and vice versa, not on really

 

[radamfi]

There's also a difference between 'comfortable' and 'good for you'. I find Voyagers/Pendos 'uncomfortable', but I do appreciate that they are good for my lower back, unlike EC Mallard, for example.