greenhoward
New Member
Can anyone identify this locomotive that I think used to run on the Eastern Region between Great Yarmouth and London. The gentleman with the oil can is my grandfather who lived 1845 - 1911 and lived in Yarmouth.
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Identify locomotive
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Iron_Duke
Member
I'll have a stab at it, I think it may be a GER Class 245:
www.flickr.com
www.gersociety.org.uk
Great Eastern Railway (UK) - GER Class 245 4-2-2 steam locomotive Nr. 254 (Dübs Locomotive Works, Glasgow 1879-82)
Nr. 254 was one of twenty Dübs and Kitson 4-2-2 steam locomotive built for the Great Eastern Railway in 1879-1882
www.flickr.com
No.245
Gloster
Veteran Member
The Eastern Region of British Railways did not come into existence until 1948, along with BR itself. Before that it was the London & North Eastern Railway (no connection with the current operation) from 1923 and before that, except in the earliest days, the Great Eastern Railway (again, no connection).
This looks like a 2-2-2 or 4-2-2 (the wheel arrangement) of which the GER had several classes: W, 73, 245, D27 and P45. I think it is most likely a 245 class.
The Great Eastern Society has a site .gersociety.org.uk .
This looks like a 2-2-2 or 4-2-2 (the wheel arrangement) of which the GER had several classes: W, 73, 245, D27 and P45. I think it is most likely a 245 class.
The Great Eastern Society has a site .gersociety.org.uk .
Described here:
www.gersociety.org.uk
Massey Bromley was the Chief Mechanical Engineer of the Great Eastern Railway at the time, and it is normal to attribute locomotives to that officer, although the actual design would be done by his drawing office. Some locomotives might be built by the railway's own locomotive workshops, which for the GER were in Stratford, while others, including these, would have the drawings issued to mainstream locomotive factories. Dubs were in Glasgow, and Kitson were in Leeds, they built 10 each. The locomotive type, or class, was often known by the number of the first one, although the classification applied to all. These were the 245 class. Dubs built 245-254, and Kitson built 600-609. The floral appearance of the cover (the "splasher") over the large driving wheel shows it is early in the loco life, as later these were replaced by plain steel covers.
This reference states that four were stationed at Yarmouth, and although built in 1879-1882, they were all scrapped between 1890-1893 as now being outmoded, which may help you date the photograph
steamindex.com
If your grandfather was the driver it was not uncommon in Victorian times to be issued with his own locomotive, which he principally drove and took responsibility for, including arranging for repairs etc. I don't suppose your grandfather is here too?
rchsimagearchive.org.uk
No.245
Massey Bromley was the Chief Mechanical Engineer of the Great Eastern Railway at the time, and it is normal to attribute locomotives to that officer, although the actual design would be done by his drawing office. Some locomotives might be built by the railway's own locomotive workshops, which for the GER were in Stratford, while others, including these, would have the drawings issued to mainstream locomotive factories. Dubs were in Glasgow, and Kitson were in Leeds, they built 10 each. The locomotive type, or class, was often known by the number of the first one, although the classification applied to all. These were the 245 class. Dubs built 245-254, and Kitson built 600-609. The floral appearance of the cover (the "splasher") over the large driving wheel shows it is early in the loco life, as later these were replaced by plain steel covers.
This reference states that four were stationed at Yarmouth, and although built in 1879-1882, they were all scrapped between 1890-1893 as now being outmoded, which may help you date the photograph
SteamIndex
locomotives of the Great Eastern Railway built at Stratford under Gooch, Sinclair, Johnson, Adams, Bromley, Holden and Hill
steamindex.com
If your grandfather was the driver it was not uncommon in Victorian times to be issued with his own locomotive, which he principally drove and took responsibility for, including arranging for repairs etc. I don't suppose your grandfather is here too?
RCHS Online Media Archive | Traction | 245 Class 4-2-2 No. 609 (Ref: 011002)
rchsimagearchive.org.uk
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Does look like a GER 245. The Westinghouse pump is certainly right for a GER loco if there were any doubt about the company. The spectacle glasses are unusual and distinctive. Were these a feature unique to Massey Bromley's designs? Can anyone make out the number? The last numeral looks like a 1, so 251 perhaps?
Massey Bromley was only in post for a few years, during which time he established Stratford Works, but he had left the GER before his untimely death in the Penistone accident in 1884.
Massey Bromley was only in post for a few years, during which time he established Stratford Works, but he had left the GER before his untimely death in the Penistone accident in 1884.
Last edited:
Gloster
Veteran Member
The Stratford Works owned by the GER was in east London. It was not the small and fairly basic establishment in Stratford-upon-Avon; this belonged to the very minor Stratford on Avon & Midland Junction Railway and was closed around 1923.
By the by, can anyone shed light on the vehicle behind the tender? A birdcage brake perhaps, but apparently fitted with duckets too. Lavish provision indeed. So no excuse for the guard to claim he couldn't see what was going on around him!
DerekC
Established Member
Welcome to the Forum @greenhoward - you have drawn attention to an elegant class of locomotive which I hadn't seen a picture of before. Do you have any more history of your grandfather's career with the GER? Presumably he was a driver. The best I have is a cousin several times removed who was an LNWR ticket clerk!
greenhoward
New Member
Thank you for your information.I'll have a stab at it, I think it may be a GER Class 245:
Great Eastern Railway (UK) - GER Class 245 4-2-2 steam locomotive Nr. 254 (Dübs Locomotive Works, Glasgow 1879-82)
Nr. 254 was one of twenty Dübs and Kitson 4-2-2 steam locomotive built for the Great Eastern Railway in 1879-1882
No.245
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
I believe my grandfather was the men in the foreground with the oil can, based on the facial similarity with a known photograph of him. He lived in Gorleston, Yarmouth in 1881, 1891 and 1901 when he was described as an engine driver.Described here:
No.245
Massey Bromley was the Chief Mechanical Engineer of the Great Eastern Railway at the time, and it is normal to attribute locomotives to that officer, although the actual design would be done by his drawing office. Some locomotives might be built by the railway's own locomotive workshops, which for the GER were in Stratford, while others, including these, would have the drawings issued to mainstream locomotive factories. Dubs were in Glasgow, and Kitson were in Leeds, they built 10 each. The locomotive type, or class, was often known by the number of the first one, although the classification applied to all. These were the 245 class. Dubs built 245-254, and Kitson built 600-609. The floral appearance of the cover (the "splasher") over the large driving wheel shows it is early in the loco life, as later these were replaced by plain steel covers.
This reference states that four were stationed at Yarmouth, and although built in 1879-1882, they were all scrapped between 1890-1893 as now being outmoded, which may help you date the photograph
SteamIndex
locomotives of the Great Eastern Railway built at Stratford under Gooch, Sinclair, Johnson, Adams, Bromley, Holden and Hill
If your grandfather was the driver it was not uncommon in Victorian times to be issued with his own locomotive, which he principally drove and took responsibility for, including arranging for repairs etc. I don't suppose your grandfather is here too?
RCHS Online Media Archive | Traction | 245 Class 4-2-2 No. 609 (Ref: 011002)
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