Identification of Loco Workings from 1978 - HELP PLEASE

[Commoner]

Have tried elsewhere on the Web and I am aware this is a long, long shot, but I would appreciate any help in identifying the workings of the following, way back in 1978. The Timewarp Archive Pages reveal nothing in relation to my request.

Thanks

Kevin (Commoner)

Saturday 21st January 1978
33005 Bristol TM-Bath
31229 Bath- Bristol TM
31422 Bristol TM-Bath
31414 Bath- Bristol TM
31415 Bristol TM-Bath
31416 Bath- Bristol TM

Monday 30th January 1978
46002 Bristol TM-Bristol Parkway
47138 Cardiff-Newport
47097 Newport-Cardiff
45032 Cardiff-Newport
45063 Parkway-Bristol TM

Wednesday 5th April 1978
45027 Parkway-Bristol TM

 

[Mvann]

I would guess the 2 class 47 workings were to/from paddington and the class 45/46 workings are cross country workings. I don't have a shed book for that year, but by the early 1980s I think some of the 46s were sheded at Gateshead for Newcastle Penzance services.

 

[ac6000cw]

I would guess the 2 class 47 workings were to/from paddington and the class 45/46 workings are cross country workings. I don't have a shed book for that year, but by the early 1980s I think some of the 46s were sheded at Gateshead for Newcastle Penzance services.

Agreed - as far as I remember, 46's were mostly allocated to Gateshead and Holbeck (Leeds). Bath Road (Bristol) I think had some 45's for cross-country workings - there might also have been a few allocated to Laira for the same purpose.

The 31's (and the 33) would have been on Cardiff-Portsmouth and Bristol-Weymouth trains. A 31 plus 4-6 Mk1 carriages was a common formation on what later became the longer distance Regional Railways routes before Sprinterisation.

 

[30907]

Not sure about 47/0 on Paddington trains in 1978, wouldn't those all have had a/c or at least etc stock by then?

Think the Crewe service was still 25s then, but there were some odd workings towards Plymouth which might have produced a 47, or the odds and ends of night trains.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Not sure about 47/0 on Paddington trains in 1978, wouldn't those all have had a/c or at least etc stock by then?

Think the Crewe service was still 25s then, but there were some odd workings towards Plymouth which might have produced a 47, or the odds and ends of night trains.

I'd agree too about the 47/0s - they're more likely to have been on non-Paddington services, unless there were steam heat workings for Fishguard maybe? NE/SW (cross-country) services ran to Cardiff in those days, so that's a possible, and they could have turned up on the Bristol-Cardiff sections of Portstmouth-Cardiff workings (although it looks like those were already booked for electric heat locos, judging by the 31/4s and 33s
The Peaks probably NE/SW services, and the 31/33s on Cardiff/Bristol to Portsmouth/Weymouth services.
Hang on a bit and I'll see if I've got any loco-hauled travel books from back then. (Later edit: ...no)

 

[Mvann]

It looks like the 3 31/4s were allocated to old oak, 47138 to Bristol, 47097 to Cardiff and 46002 to laira in jan/feb 1978. At least one of the 45s was allocated to holbeck.

 

[Bevan Price]

Impossible to say accurately unless you remember an approximate time of day for each run, but the 45 & 47s between Cardiff & Newport may have been on the express services that ran directly between Newport & Gloucester via Lydney - there were several trains each way.
e.g. 07:40 Cardiff - Newcastle
07:20 Swansea - Leeds
08:28 Swansea - Manchester
11:45 Cardiff - Newcastle
14:28 Swansea - Manchester
17:45 Cardiff - Manchester

with a roughly similar level of southbound services. At that date, Manchester services would change locos at Birmingham New St., and stock quite possibly dual-heated Mark 1 coaches.

Bristol - Portsmouth services ran roughly every 2 hours (all loco hauled); there were also 2 loco-hauled return trips daily between Bristol & Weymouth.

(Portsmouth services did not continue beyond Bristol to Cardiff in 1977/78 timetable.)

 

[Taunton]

I would guess the 2 class 47 workings were to/from Paddington.

I think less likely. By this date the full HST fleet was in operation, and any remaining loco-hauled Paddington services were all AC stock. Those two are non-ETH Class 47/0. They were both WR locos so could have been on anything, Shrewsbury, NE-SW, even Cardiff-Bristol services.

Class 33 likely on a Portsmouth service and Class 31 on those to Weymouth.

 

[ac6000cw]

Impossible to say accurately unless you remember an approximate time of day for each run, but the 45 & 47s between Cardiff & Newport may have been on the express services that ran directly between Newport & Gloucester via Lydney - there were several trains each way.
e.g. 07:40 Cardiff - Newcastle
07:20 Swansea - Leeds
08:28 Swansea - Manchester
11:45 Cardiff - Newcastle
14:28 Swansea - Manchester
17:45 Cardiff - Manchester

with a roughly similar level of southbound services. At that date, Manchester services would change locos at Birmingham New St., and stock quite possibly dual-heated Mark 1 coaches.

Bristol - Portsmouth services ran roughly every 2 hours (all loco hauled); there were also 2 loco-hauled return trips daily between Bristol & Weymouth.

(Portsmouth services did not continue beyond Bristol to Cardiff in 1977/78 timetable.)

Based on too much time spent on the platforms at New Street in the mid-70s , the 45's between Newport & Cardiff would be more likely to be to/from the northeast, and the 47's on the Manchester trains (which changed to electric haulage at New Street). The traction for the cross-country trains tended to come from the ends of the routes, so 45/46 from the ER and 47's from WR on the South Wales/Reading - Birmingham (reverse/change traction) trains.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I think less likely. By this date the full HST fleet was in operation, and any remaining loco-hauled Paddington services were all AC stock.

Weren't there still a couple of Paddington via Oxford cross country services in those days that would have yielded a 47 and non-aircon stock? ( Not relevant to the OP's services, however. )

 

[Taunton]

Oh sure. But not from Newport. Vacuum braked Mk 1 stock lasted well into Network SouthEast days on those services, not sure when they gave up the steam heat. There was quite a lot of ETH-capable stock around, it had long been needed on Cross-Country services through Birmingham to the electric WCML, but a shortage of ETH-capable locos, particularly Class 47s.