Ideas for services through Bolton following ITT

[Philip]

Going off the ITT what do people think the services on the Bolton line will comprise of in a few years time?

We know the Scotland service will be back on that line, hourly from Manchester Airport. Would it then be a good idea to divert Manchester Airport - Blackpool via Wigan, considering Bolton will still have an hourly all stops service to Blackpool from Manchester Victoria? Windermere will probably be a portion working with the Blackpool train as far as Preston. I guess the Barrow service can go via Bolton.

I think the Southport - Manchester Airport service may be diverted into Victoria or beyond and instead an EMU service from Wigan will run to the Airport, either the stopping service or the semi-fast. Mentioned earlier I'd look at the possibility of a portion working DMU from Preston to Stockport with one half going to New Mills, the other to Chester as the semi-fast service. The extra Preston to Stockport should be an EMU terminating at Alderley Edge or Crewe. Clitheroe to Manchester should remain as it is.

That would give a minimum of 8 trains per hour between Manchester and Bolton, 9 trains every other hour.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think the Southport - Manchester Airport service may be diverted into Victoria or beyond and instead an EMU service from Wigan will run to the Airport, either the stopping service or the semi-fast.

If the Southport service is diverted away from Manchester Airport to Manchester Victoria and beyond, this will allow the paths from Manchester Piccadilly to Manchester Airport that these services utilise to be used for something far more useful.

 

[Philip]

If the Southport service is diverted away from Manchester Airport to Manchester Victoria and beyond, this will allow the paths from Manchester Piccadilly to Manchester Airport that these services utilise to be used for something far more useful.

One of the Wigan stoppers will probably replace it, to makje better use of the electrification. There's a minimum number of trians required between Bolton and the Airport which I think means more than one train per hour is required. Then there's the required fast service between Wigan and Manchester to replace the Scotland service.

 

[Searle]

It would make good sense for the Blackpool service to go via Wigan (direct NT service from Bolton), and the Scotland service via Bolton (direct VT from Wigan), I would be surprised if anything different happened.

 

[Senex]

That would give a minimum of 8 trains per hour between Manchester and Bolton, 9 trains every other hour.

Though the December 2017 timetable requirement allows the Scotland trains to be pick-up/set-down only at Bolton, thus (wisely in my opinion) allowing the option of keeping short-distance passengers off them.

 

[Ash Bridge]

If the Southport service is diverted away from Manchester Airport to Manchester Victoria and beyond, this will allow the paths from Manchester Piccadilly to Manchester Airport that these services utilise to be used for something far more useful.

Would it be feasable if the Southport was diverted to Victoria for it to continue to Stockport via Denton & Reddish South then terminate in the bay platform 3A?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Would it be feasable if the Southport was diverted to Victoria for it to continue to Stockport via Denton & Reddish South then terminate in the bay platform 3A?

Do I sense a "cunning plan" emerging here to incorporate the aspirational service from Manchester Victoria via Denton to Stockport and vice-versa?

 

[Ash Bridge]

Do I sense a "cunning plan" emerging here to incorporate the aspirational service from Manchester Victoria via Denton to Stockport and vice-versa?

What could possibly make you think such a thing Paul?

 

[edwin_m]

It would make good sense for the Blackpool service to go via Wigan (direct NT service from Bolton), and the Scotland service via Bolton (direct VT from Wigan), I would be surprised if anything different happened.

The Liverpool-Blackpool provides a service between Wigan and Blackpool, and although this is going to be split at Preston it is only a temporary measure.

WCML is also fairly congested on the 2-track section north of Wigan.

 

[WatcherZero]

Though the December 2017 timetable requirement allows the Scotland trains to be pick-up/set-down only at Bolton, thus (wisely in my opinion) allowing the option of keeping short-distance passengers off them.

Also says they shouldn't call at Bolton in the peaks.

 

[D6975]

Also says they shouldn't call at Bolton in the peaks.

OMG common sense, whatever next!!

 

[Philip]

With the restrictions at Bolton for peak time and the pick up only option in mind perhaps the Blackpool fast will remain on the Bolton line. Maybe one of the Wigan stoppers could be diverted via Chat Moss to Piccadilly and the Airport. The other Wigan stopper and either the Southport, the Clitheroe, or the Blackpool stopper could pick up calls between Wigan and Bolton and between Bolton and Salford. Now we know the Scotland service is going back to the Bolton route and the Southport service likely to be diverted into Victoria it'd leave Wigan without a direct connection to Piccadilly so at least one service will have to be re-routed.

 

[Tony2215]

I think Stoke-on-Trent would benefit with a service beyond Manchester, especially when its electrified as 323s could run to Preston/Blackpool replacing the diesel Hazel Grove services.

 

[Philip]

I think Stoke-on-Trent would benefit with a service beyond Manchester, especially when its electrified as 323s could run to Preston/Blackpool replacing the diesel Hazel Grove services.

Perhaps run as a portion train from Preston to Stockport with a split at Stockport - one for Alderley or Crewe, the other for Stoke? Could even run a Preston-Manchester-Stockport-Crewe-Alsager-Stoke service.

 

[158756]

It would make good sense for the Blackpool service to go via Wigan (direct NT service from Bolton), and the Scotland service via Bolton (direct VT from Wigan), I would be surprised if anything different happened.

'Twenty services departing from Manchester Airport to Manchester shall call at Salford Crescent, Bolton and Preston. Eighteen of these services shall also call at Blackpool.', Northern TSR

My guess would be Blackpool and Preston services as now, Barrow maybe via Bolton as well, especially at peak times. Clitheroe as now, plus Blackburn-Victoria
. At least 2tph seem to be required to Wigan via Bolton, one of which I'd expect to go to Piccadilly if/when the Hub works are finished. As only one of at least 6 tph between Wigan and Manchester, and the shortest distance service, I'd also guess the calls between Bolton and Salford to remain on a Wigan train.

 

[Philip]

Hopefully cross-Manchester local services from east to west will be retained and strengthened too.

Something like: 1 train per hour Southport to Stalybridge via Bolton, 1 train per hour Blackpool to Stalybridge via Bolton, 1 train per hour Wigan to Todmorden via Bolton 1 train per hour Kirkby to Stalybridge via Atherton, 1 train per hour Southport to Todmorden via Atherton.

Going through Piccadilly: 1 train per hour Blackpool to the Airport via Bolton, 1 train per hour Scotland to Airport via Bolton, 2 train per hour Preston to Stockport via Bolton with final destination open for debate, bi-hourly train Barrow to Airport via Bolton.

Finally 1 train per hour Wigan to Manchester via Chat Moss, final destination open for debate.

Gotta say I'd love to see Bolton and Salford Crescent have regular, direct services to Chester, Crewe and Hazel Grove - though I guess it's unlikely.

 

[Tony2215]

it would be interesting to see if virgin get some extensions beyond Manchester on their 3tph Euston to Manchester.

 

[thealexweb]

it would be interesting to see if virgin get some extensions beyond Manchester on their 3tph Euston to Manchester.

Given that both First and Virgin both planned to run at least 1tpd to Bolton by December 2016 in their WCML bids I think its safe to assume this will be happening in the next franchise.