Ideas for service patterns on TransPennine Route Post-IRP

[Glenn1969]

Dewsbury is a different case but I don't think running 2x stoppers between Huddersfield and Leeds (formed of EMU stock) could really be seen as inadequate.

Nor do I but if the route is two track after Westtown is there room for them? I would argue Dewsbury to Leeds possibly needs 3 or even 4tph

 

[IanXC]

Nor do I but if the route is two track after Westtown is there room for them? I would argue Dewsbury to Leeds possibly needs 3 or even 4tph

I did say Dewsbury was a different case. Adding one stop into a flighted service pattern is significantly easier than adding 4, which funnily enough is the same as the Garforth corridor has been in pre Covid timetables; we've had 2 stoppers and 8 (1 with a Garforth call and 1 with a Church Fenton call) expresses running down their in the past. On that basis achieving something similar through Dewsbury seems plausible.

 

[HST43257]

NPR

• 1tph Liverpool to Edinburgh calling at Warrington Bank Quay, Manchester Airport, Manchester Piccadilly , Leeds, York, Northallerton, Darlington, Newcastle and Edinburgh
• 1tph Birmingham to Newcastle calling at Crewe, Manchester Airport, Manchester Piccadilly, Huddersfield, Leeds, York, Darlington, Durham, Chester-le-Street and Newcastle.
• 1tph Liverpool to Scarborough calling at Warrington Bank Quay, Manchester Airport, Manchester Piccadilly , Leeds, York, Malton, Seamer and Scarborough.
• 1tp2h Birmingham to Middlesbrough calling at Crewe, Manchester Airport, Manchester Piccadilly, Huddersfield, Leeds, York and Middlesbrough.
• 1tp2h Birmingham to Washington calling at Crewe, Manchester Airport, Manchester Piccadilly, Huddersfield, Leeds, York, Darlington and Washington.
• 2tph Liverpool to Hull calling at Widnes for Runcorn, Warrington Bank Quay, Manchester Airport, Manchester Piccadilly, Huddersfield, Leeds, Selby, Brough and Hull
• 1tph Liverpool to Cleethorpes calling at Warrington Bank Quay, Manchester Airport, Manchester Piccadilly, Stockport, Sheffield, Meadowhall, Doncaster, Scunthorpe, Barnetby, Habrough, Grimsby Town and Cleethorpes.
• 1tph Liverpool to Nottingham calling at Warrington Bank Quay, Manchester Airport, Manchester Piccadilly, Stockport, Sheffield, Chesterfield, Alfreton and Nottingham.

TPE

• 1tph Newcastle to Liverpool calling at Durham, Darlington, Northallerton, York, Wakefield Kirkgate, Huddersfield, Manchester Victoria, Newton-le-Willows, Lea Green, Huyton and Liverpool Lime Street.
• 1tph Saltburn to Manchester Airport calling at Redcar Central, Middlesbrough, Thornaby, Yarm, Northallerton, Thirsk, York, Garforth, Leeds, Dewsbury, Huddersfield, Stalybridge, Manchester Victoria, Manchester Oxford Road, Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Airport.

 

[PTR 444]

Is there room for more than 4 fasts per hour on NPR/TRU?

If so, I would have:

• 2tph Liverpool - Hull
• 1tph Liverpool - Newcastle
• 1tph Liverpool - Scarborough
• 1tph Birmingham - Newcastle
• 1tph Birmingham - Saltburn

Along with the following ‘classic’ services on the Huddersfield route

• 2tph Liverpool - Huddersfield all stations stopper via Chat Moss and Diggle
• 1tph Manchester Piccadilly - Bradford Interchange via Guide Bridge and Brighouse
• 1tph Manchester Piccadilly - Castleford via Guide Bridge and Wakefield Kirkgate

 

[HSTEd]

I've thought about this quite a lot.

If we were to break the stoppers at Marsden, we could operate the old line through Stalybridge as a self contained line akin to the Glossop/Hadfield branch, perhaps with 4tph quasi metro service.

That would then mean that even the "stoppers" would have dramatically faster journey times than today, so might be useful for end to end journeys.

 

[Greybeard33]

NPR

• 1tph Liverpool to Edinburgh calling at Warrington Bank Quay, Manchester Airport, Manchester Piccadilly , Leeds, York, Northallerton, Darlington, Newcastle and Edinburgh
• 1tph Birmingham to Newcastle calling at Crewe, Manchester Airport, Manchester Piccadilly, Huddersfield, Leeds, York, Darlington, Durham, Chester-le-Street and Newcastle.
• 1tph Liverpool to Scarborough calling at Warrington Bank Quay, Manchester Airport, Manchester Piccadilly , Leeds, York, Malton, Seamer and Scarborough.
• 1tp2h Birmingham to Middlesbrough calling at Crewe, Manchester Airport, Manchester Piccadilly, Huddersfield, Leeds, York and Middlesbrough.
• 1tp2h Birmingham to Washington calling at Crewe, Manchester Airport, Manchester Piccadilly, Huddersfield, Leeds, York, Darlington and Washington.
• 2tph Liverpool to Hull calling at Widnes for Runcorn, Warrington Bank Quay, Manchester Airport, Manchester Piccadilly, Huddersfield, Leeds, Selby, Brough and Hull
• 1tph Liverpool to Cleethorpes calling at Warrington Bank Quay, Manchester Airport, Manchester Piccadilly, Stockport, Sheffield, Meadowhall, Doncaster, Scunthorpe, Barnetby, Habrough, Grimsby Town and Cleethorpes.
• 1tph Liverpool to Nottingham calling at Warrington Bank Quay, Manchester Airport, Manchester Piccadilly, Stockport, Sheffield, Chesterfield, Alfreton and Nottingham.

TPE

• 1tph Newcastle to Liverpool calling at Durham, Darlington, Northallerton, York, Wakefield Kirkgate, Huddersfield, Manchester Victoria, Newton-le-Willows, Lea Green, Huyton and Liverpool Lime Street.
• 1tph Saltburn to Manchester Airport calling at Redcar Central, Middlesbrough, Thornaby, Yarm, Northallerton, Thirsk, York, Garforth, Leeds, Dewsbury, Huddersfield, Stalybridge, Manchester Victoria, Manchester Oxford Road, Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Airport.

The IRP states, in Fig.5, that NPR will potentially deliver 4tph Liverpool - Leeds, 6tph Liverpool - Manchester and 8tph Manchester - Leeds, seemingly including the semi-fasts on the classic lines. Your proposal has 6tph Liverpool - Leeds, 8tph Liverpool - Manchester and 8tph Manchester - Leeds.

You propose 2tph between the Piccadilly HS2 station and Sheffield via Stockport, but the NPR junction provision at Piccadilly is for a line heading east, towards Ashburys. There will be no connection to the Stockport line, so any NPR trains to Sheffield will have to be routed via Marple not Stockport.

 

[Purple Orange]

Unless the lines to Middlesbrough, Scarborough and Hull are electrified, there won’t be any NPR services from Piccadilly HS2 station going there. I think we will have:

• 1 x Birmingham-Edinburgh via Manchester & Leeds
• 1 x Birmingham-Newcastle via Manchester
• 4 x Liverpool-York