Ideas for Class 350/2 Desiros could go to Northern

[James Kevill]

After the Class 730 Aventras have enter the service in 2020/21, all of the Class 350/2 Desiros will be replaced and leave the West Midlands Trains franchise and Porterbrook will convert all of the units into Battery Electric Multiple Units, and the project will be called Battery Flex.

Here are the two website links I found:

https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/porterbrook-battery-electric-train/

https://www.porterbrook.co.uk/news/porterbrook-announces-batteryflex-in-green-great-britain-week

They will be used on the Non-Electrified lines such as Oxenholme to Windermere line, so they will be operated by Northern in 2020/21.

And they could also be used on the new future Northern Connect: Mainline Express and it would be suitable for the 110mph speed and even more reliable than diesels

 

[plugwash]

The question IMO is will train operators be prepared to bet on another porterbrook conversion project given that their current one is running years later?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Windermere needs the wires. As a very low-cost project (so far as the railway goes) it must have the best benefit-to-cost ratio of any presently outstanding electrification project.

 

[sprinterguy]

After the Class 730 Aventras have enter the service in 2020/21, all of the Class 350/2 Desiros will be replaced and leave the West Midlands Trains franchise and Porterbrook will convert all of the units into Battery Electric Multiple Units, and the project will be called Battery Flex.

Here are the two website links I found:

https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/porterbrook-battery-electric-train/

https://www.porterbrook.co.uk/news/porterbrook-announces-batteryflex-in-green-great-britain-week

They will be used on the Non-Electrified lines such as Oxenholme to Windermere line, so they will be operated by Northern in 2020/21.

And they could also be used on the new future Northern Connect: Mainline Express and it would be suitable for the 110mph speed and even more reliable than diesels

You seem to be very confident of all this: Not saying it won't happen, but firstly, Porterbrook have yet to create a demonstrator unit for this project, and the class 350/2s aren't due to go off lease until June 2021, so even if Porterbrook managed to adhere to a conversion schedule similar to what they originally promised for the 769s, the earliest you could expect to see one in action would probably be early 2023.

Secondly, both of the articles you have linked only state that Porterbrook have "modelled energy and power demands for routes such as the Windermere branch". That's very different to actually confirming that they will be used on the branch: As I recall Porterbrook have modelled performance of the class 769 on the Buxton branch as a proof of concept, which does not mean that they will operate over the line.

However I do think that 350/2s would be a good fit for Northern in their existing form as a replacement for the class 319 units: Perhaps if Northern were interested the units could be introduced to electric service first, and conversion of the fleet to battery electric mode could then be undertaken gradually, similar to how the 319s were introduced before the 769 project came about (Though I recognise that used different units).

There's definitely merit in fairly modern electric units being able to go "off piste" with no emissions at point of use if the battery technology offers sufficient range, though as Bletchleyite notes above surely the Windermere branch should be fairly low hanging fruit for conventional electrification. I suppose battery operation would keep the overhead catenary out of the Lake District National Park if that was considered a stumbling block.

 

[James Kevill]

Windermere needs the wires. As a very low-cost project (so far as the railway goes) it must have the best benefit-to-cost ratio of any presently outstanding electrification project.

I agree with you, we needed the electric wires to extend from Oxenholme Lake District to Windermere branch line so the electric trains can operate this line and replacing the Diesel trains, until that stupid transport secretary Chris Grayling cancelled it in July 2017 and that's In 2 years ago.

 

[td97]

I'd have thought the 350/2s are ideal for Northern as a 319 replacement for the next franchise. Would tie in very nicely with an electrification project which has potential to be finished by 2025.
Windermere is more suited for 331s, not 3+2 commuter units.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd have thought the 350/2s are ideal for Northern as a 319 replacement for the next franchise. Would tie in very nicely with an electrification project which has potential to be finished by 2025.
Windermere is more suited for 331s, not 3+2 commuter units.

I can't see any reason they couldn't replace the seats with 2+2 ironing boards with tables and paint the vehicle ends dark blue, though. If they did that most normals wouldn't be able to tell the difference from a CAF unit other than the extra half-a-coach in length or so.

Mind you, the news on the 730 thread (likely huge delays in delivery) would suggest it's quite likely WMT will need them for the foreseeable.

 

[td97]

I can't see any reason they couldn't replace the seats with 2+2 ironing boards with tables and paint the vehicle ends dark blue, though. If they did that most normals wouldn't be able to tell the difference from a CAF unit other than the extra half-a-coach in length or so.

Repurposing to 2+2 is an option but not ideal as a 319 replacement. Especially as Northern is not exactly awash with cash to replace perfectly serviceable seats which could simply be reupholstered.
The 331s are the regional units and these 350s could be used for commuter/stopping duties.
It's unlikely they'd be used in the current franchise period, so a delay in 730 introduction simply means they'll spend less time sat in warm storage.