Ideas for Class 332 after Crossrail

[Ayman Ilham]

So I've noticed the Heathrow Express Class 332 has such a luxurious interior and looks so perfect inside and out, I think it really deserves to be used on longer journeys than the 21 minute Paddington to Heathrow shuttle so I thought, maybe Heathrow Express can extend their services once the crossrail tunnels are up and running.
Since Crossrail will take over Heathrow Connect, the 360 can be the Paddington to Heathrow shuttle and then the 332 can run express services via Crossrail up the West Anglia and Great Eastern lines. Here are some of my ideas for future 332 diagrams:

Stansted to Heathrow with intermediate stops at Bishops Stortford, Harlow, Stratford and Farringdon (providing Thameslink connections to Luton and Gatwick)
Heathrow to Norwich calling at Stratford, Chelmsford, Colchester and Ipswich

All of the above will have trolley service provided.

 

[swt_passenger]

So I've noticed the Heathrow Express Class 332 has such a luxurious interior and looks so perfect inside and out, I think it really deserves to be used on longer journeys than the 21 minute Paddington to Heathrow shuttle so I thought, maybe Heathrow Express can extend their services once the crossrail tunnels are up and running.

Dream on. There is absolutely no possibility of any stock running through the Crossrail tunnels other than the dedicated 345s.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Nice idea, however I see six flaws.

The 360s are going to need a refurb to get them suitable for the premium fares that HEx charge.

There are not enough 360s to cover HEx for any more than a few days and that is without doing the T4 shuttle (maintenance issues)

Heathrow Airport Ltd would then have to become an open access operator through Crossrail and over franchised routes, which TfL and other TOCs may object to because of revenue losses.

The 332s are not cleared through Crossrail or over any routes other than the one they are on now (and possibly the 333 routes in Northern land)

There are only 14 sets of 332s, which would not be enough.

There would be pathing issues both through Crossrail and on the Eastern routes.

 

[Ayman Ilham]

The 360s are going to need a refurb to get them suitable for the premium fares that HEx charge.

So that's why the 332 is really luxurious for such a short journey!

 

[northwichcat]

The TPE semi-fasts once Hull is electrified with the rest being 'converted' to 333s and them all being maintained by the existing Siemens facilities at Neville Hill and Ardwick.

 

[cjmillsnun]

So that's why the 332 is really luxurious for such a short journey!

Yup, people pay through the nose for it..

 

[Aws87024]

The 332's are also owned by Heathrow Airport Holdings Limited so i cant see them moving away from these services unless they are sold on or subleased.

 

[Ayman Ilham]

The 332's are also owned by Heathrow Airport Holdings Limited so i cant see them moving away from these services unless they are sold on or subleased.

They'll still be operated by Heathrow Express and owned by the airport!

 

[D365]

They'll still be operated by Heathrow Express and owned by the airport!

Then it's up to them what happens.

A far more realistic idea is that they'll operate a London-Reading via Heathrow service when WRAtH is finally commissioned, but that all depends on whether they retain track access rights beyond 2023.

 

[Class 170101]

Stansted to Heathrow with intermediate stops at Bishops Stortford, Harlow, Stratford and Farringdon (providing Thameslink connections to Luton and Gatwick)

No direct route available between Crossrail tunnels and the West Anglia route at Stratford.

 

[AM9]

Yup, people pay through the nose for it..

Well some of the passengers. The others' fares are set against company profits for tax purposes, so we all contribute to their travel on it.

 

[168lover]

They would be ideal as a replacement for 90s on London-Norwich's but I know not likely to ever happen

 

[Ayman Ilham]

They would be ideal as a replacement for 90s on London-Norwich's but I know not likely to ever happen

They would have to build more 332s for that since:

There are only 14 sets of 332s, which would not be enough.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

They would have to build more 332s for that since:

No more 332s would be built because their design was superseded by the Desiro UK design which itself has now been superseded by the Desiro City design.

The most likely option would be for them to head up north to Northern to join the class 333s. I don't know what works would be needed if any to make them compatible in-service

 

[jopsuk]

No more 332s would be built because their design was superseded by the Desiro UK design which itself has now been superseded by the Desiro City design.

The most likely option would be for them to head up north to Northern to join the class 333s. I don't know what works would be needed if any to make them compatible in-service

At a guess:
make sure the software is all the same on both fleets
reduce the 5-car units to 4 car to make life easier
gut the interior and put in something more suited to a high-demand commuter operation

 

[Philip Phlopp]

At a guess:
make sure the software is all the same on both fleets
reduce the 5-car units to 4 car to make life easier
gut the interior and put in something more suited to a high-demand commuter operation

I'd start with something useful like TPWS.

 

[47271]

Gatwick Express used to be worth paying a premium for too

 

[jon0844]

Gatwick Express used to be worth paying a premium for too

Oh I don't know. Look inside first class on a 332 when it's sitting on a platform at Paddington and then compare with first class on a 387/2.

Almost identical..!

 

[jopsuk]

I'd start with something useful like TPWS.

Ah. Yes. That would help!

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Would they have to remove the ATP equipment to install TPWS or is there enough room onboard to install TPWS whilst leaving the ATP equipment intact albeit disconnected?

 

[Domh245]

Would they have to remove the ATP equipment to install TPWS or is there enough room onboard to install TPWS whilst leaving the ATP equipment intact albeit disconnected?

If you are gutting the train to convert it into something that can work with another class, there is no reason why the ATP equipment wouldn't be removed. And as for the cab equipment, I would half expect the dashboard to be replaced with a screen as futureproofing in anticipation of ERTMS rollout.

 

[ash39]

They would be ideal as a replacement for 90s on London-Norwich's but I know not likely to ever happen

Worst suggestion I've ever seen on this forum. Or anywhere actually. Replace 15 sets of 8-9 carriage sets with 14 4-car EMU's on a route that already suffers capacity issues?

 

[Philip Phlopp]

If you are gutting the train to convert it into something that can work with another class, there is no reason why the ATP equipment wouldn't be removed. And as for the cab equipment, I would half expect the dashboard to be replaced with a screen as futureproofing in anticipation of ERTMS rollout.

If the Class 332 units form a combined fleet with the Class 333 units, I'd agree on a common cab wiring standard for ease of maintenance, and then remove the ATP, install ERTMS as necessary and re-wire as part of the works.

There's absolutely no point in combining the fleets and then making enormous amounts of work for the maintenance staff by having wiring differences and complex fault finding which keeps units out of service for days at a time.

 

[ash39]

I can't see the 332's working alongside the 333's either, in their current area of operation anyway. Platform lengths and OHLE capacity prevents 333's operating in multiple in regular service, so having 14 extra sets would not help things.

Part of the new CAF EMU order is for the Airdale/Wharfedale lines. Maybe the 333's and 332's could find work for Northern in the north west but I've no idea how many sets or diagrams are required.

 

[bluenoxid]

Im playing devils advocate here but the 333's could head south instead.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I can't see the 332's working alongside the 333's either, in their current area of operation anyway. Platform lengths and OHLE capacity prevents 333's operating in multiple in regular service, so having 14 extra sets would not help things.

Part of the new CAF EMU order is for the Airdale/Wharfedale lines. Maybe the 333's and 332's could find work for Northern in the north west but I've no idea how many sets or diagrams are required.

When it comes to platform lengths, could ASDO be installed without costing an arm and a leg?

As to OHLE could extra feeds be installed?

 

[northwichcat]

Part of the new CAF EMU order is for the Airdale/Wharfedale lines. Maybe the 333's and 332's could find work for Northern in the north west but I've no idea how many sets or diagrams are required.

Yorkshire's only getting 16 x 3 CAF EMUs (with the 321s and 322s going off-lease in 2020), so you'll be very short of capacity in Yorkshire if you release the 333s as well!

 

[47271]

Oh I don't know. Look inside first class on a 332 when it's sitting on a platform at Paddington and then compare with first class on a 387/2.

Almost identical..!

I was thinking more of the days of the 460s, and not even in First Class. Whatever the time of day, you were almost guaranteed a near empty rear coach heading towards Victoria, and likewise at the front on the way out to Gatwick.

A bit of a waste of seats and track capacity, no wonder they did away with it as a separate service. It suited me very well though!

 

[clagmonster]

Yorkshire's only getting 16 x 3 CAF EMUs (with the 321s and 322s going off-lease in 2020), so you'll be very short of capacity in Yorkshire if you release the 333s as well!

I suspect that if you cascaded the 332s north you would likely displace the 331s west, perhaps to CP6 electrification projects. You would however have the problem that the 331s are intended to provide 6 coach trains in the peaks on the Aire Valley, that could be overcome by reforming some 332s/333s to 3 car units, or I suppose even to 6 car units.
From the current fleet of 9 4 car 332s, 5 5 car 332s and 16 4 car 333s you could end up with:
16 3 cars
7 5 cars
7 6 cars

Other variations would be available. I do not know whether a 6 car unit would keep time, or even a 5 car on the Aire Valley. Obviously there would be a reduction in the power to weight ratio.

 

[traji00]

Don't 333's have longer carriages than 332s (23m as opposed to 20m)?

And correct me if I'm wrong but Platform Edge Doors within the Crossrail/Lizzie Line tunnels can't align with any other stock being built (sans the 345s).