Ideas for A southern Region Open Access Operator - Discussion

[Speed43125]

I was thinking about a few recent developments in terms of the railways and a few things struck me.

-At the moment, to my knowledge there is no Open Access Operator in the former Southern Region (possible exception of Eurostar)
- At the same time we have all this southern compatible motive power (73/9, 92 etc) working the caledonian sleeper, as well as the applicable Mk3s being withdrawn.

Now I'm not proposing some sort of night star service, but surely some sort of XC esque service could operate between southern cities and then skirt around london possibly and rejoin what of the main North South mainlines and terminate at certain midland cities. I would propose using a class 92+ Mk4 rake for something like this, and then a similar service with 73/9 + Mk3, from some southern city to somewhere unelectrified, in the west. Chiltern/ Midland mainline perhaps?

Feel free to shoot this concept and my lack of geographic/network knowledge right down!

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Problem you have is it could only operate off-peak, due to the fact that at peak the singular priority is moving people into / out of London terminals.

Brighton being re-connected would be difficult as the East Coast Main Line will involve dodgy conflicts at Clapham Junction, Camden Road, Copenhagen; it can't get easily to the Chiltern or Midland Main Line and the West Coast is being stuffed full soon. Ashford / Kent I'm none too sure about.

What to do? Surely just a plethora of good London-based trains with decent cross-London connectivity will do the trick?

 

[JonathanH]

I would propose using a class 92+ Mk4 rake for something like this, and then a similar service with 73/9 + Mk3, from some southern city to somewhere unelectrified, in the west. Chiltern/ Midland mainline perhaps?

The South East is a unit railway (as is most of the country). 92s have taken a massive amount of work to get back into traffic for sleepers - they would be nowhere near affordable for an open access service, even if some were available for rebuilding.

Anyway, isn't linking the South with the North what Thameslink does. If you need to go further, you change to the long-distance trains in London. What problem are you trying to solve?

Frankly, with Thameslink, the Victoria and Jubilee and Bakerloo lines, there is very little need for trains that crawl around the west of London to link routes up and if you think about it, London acts as a big interchange - feeder trains from the South and East and long distance trains to the North and West.

 

[JonathanH]

Brighton being re-connected would be difficult as the East Coast Main Line will involve dodgy conflicts at Clapham Junction, Camden Road, Copenhagen

Cross platform interchange is available at Stevenage from Brighton to long-distance services on the East Coast Main Line.

 

[Clip]

Brighton being re-connected would be difficult as the East Coast Main Line will involve dodgy conflicts at Clapham Junction, Camden Road, Copenhagen

Why would any Brighton service have to go through Clapham when it can just go via London bridge and through the core with the rest of them to end up on the ECML?

Or have i missed something?

 

[56 1/2]

I was a regular on XC Bromley South to Reading in early 90s The joy of just sitting and letting the train take the strain is the stuff that adverts are made of, to get off at Reading and know that my train west will be at the same platform was relaxing. If I had to jostle and down the hole with the circle line and measure all the steps in two concourses I would have taken the car every time. Yet the service was almost a secret and some staff were almost hostile to the foreigner, clock face and fixed routes all very nice but . . . .

 

[Ianno87]

Why would any Brighton service have to go through Clapham when it can just go via London bridge and through the core with the rest of them to end up on the ECML?

Or have i missed something?

Such a service would have to match the performance capability of everything else through the core...i.e. basically be a Class 700 itself.

And be able to meet dwell time requirement (i.e. be set out as a suburban train).

And come up with a credible path around the rest of Thameslink too (good luck with that)

 

[Clip]

Such a service would have to match the performance capability of everything else through the core...i.e. basically be a Class 700 itself.

And be able to meet dwell time requirement (i.e. be set out as a suburban train).

And come up with a credible path around the rest of Thameslink too (good luck with that)

Oh aye - im well aware of the need for it to be a certain class of train due to the core requirements but was merely puzzled at the person i quoted as saying it would have difficulty going through clapham

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Why would any Brighton service have to go through Clapham when it can just go via London bridge and through the core with the rest of them to end up on the ECML?

Or have i missed something?

Well, it implies the Open Access is Intercity and therefore wouldn’t have the rights to use the core as it introduces a different rolling stock type.

 

[Terry Tait]

How about an East to West express starting at Margate and stopping at just major stations to Poole, trains can be what ever off lease EMUs are available.

 

[Bald Rick]

It’s not just in the peak that there’s no spare paths, there barely any off peak either.

Also not much of a market. There’s a reason why almost all OA today has London at one end.

 

[Clip]

Well, it implies the Open Access is Intercity and therefore wouldn’t have the rights to use the core as it introduces a different rolling stock type.

Why wouldnt they introduce exactly the same rolling stock type so that they could use the core?

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Would you want to go on something akin to a 700 (e.g. 100mph max) with even 'decent' facilities if you were going Intercity? I'd bail off the unit at St Pancras and go straight to Euston or Kings Cross and get a proper Intercity train...