Idea: Utilise withdrawn future off lease DMUs

[leo knight]

As there are a lot of 75mph dmus going off lease it would make sense to transfer them to southern branches..

Brockenhurst to lymington

The Romsey 6

Reading to Basingstoke

The Thames Valley branches
And more.
Example being that a 156 could release turbos and 158/9 to strengthen mainline services and branches won't have to use wasted 90/100 mph units.
I understand that there are 5 Scotrail all ready off lease and 9 anglia class 156 going off lease soon.
A branch line could accommodate 153/156 as a 75mph unit will not get in the way on the mainline.
Any thoughts and suggestions on more branches?

 

[delt1c]

No TOC wants a micro fleet

 

[sd0733]

There aren't 5 scotrail ones as they went to Northern and I believe Scotrail have announced they are keeping the rest.
The Anglia ones are PRM ready are almost certain to end up at the likes of EMT or TfW who are crying out for PRM ready stock.
Apart from that the only 75mph going off lease are non compliant 142/143/144/153 which won't be able to run on their own as a minimum or probably at all come the end of this year so it's a non starter.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Brockenhurst to Leamington is wholly electrified. With so many spare EMUs becoming available, there is no reason whatsoever to put any kind of DMU on it, and for environmental reasons this should be most strongly deprecated anyway.

 

[43096]

No TOC wants a micro fleet

Glad somebody has said that early on. All too easy for enthusiasts to come up with these ideas without considering the real world issues.

 

[Brush 4]

The principle is sensible though. Cascading has been around since the late 70's at least. Redundant but not life expired DMU's to diesel worked branches and secondary lines. Similar arrangement for EMU equivalent. There must be some cases where transfers would just add to an existing fleet, rather than create a micro fleet. Scrapping non life expired trains* can hardly be an efficient way of managing a railway, unless 'creative' accounting is used.

* 142/143/144 excepted, as they were rubbish from new.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Scrapping non life expired trains* can hardly be an efficient way of managing a railway

Well, it can, or at least there is some flexibility in the meaning of "life expired" - not everyone keeps a car for 10-15 years which is the realistic economic lifespan of one from new.

 

[Brush 4]

Cars are not trains and vice versa. Sound maintenance will keep things going.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Cars are not trains and vice versa. Sound maintenance will keep things going.

But not necessarily desirably, either from an economic perspective or from an environmental one. A big downside of a DMU lasting 40-50 years is that 40-50 year old diesel engine technology is still belching out particulates where on the roads it's all much newer, occasional cherished vehicles like old Land Rovers aside.

The railway is set for a big fall on this in the not too distant future. 15x all need to go in the next 5-10 years, really, and 170/175/180/22x within 10-15 years, unless adding DPFs[1] etc is viable. The alternative is bustitution, which by then will not only be cheaper but also better for the environment, being either newer diesel engines or even electrics. It will be much harder to argue against branch line closures with a shift like that.

Of course, if we'd had the nouse to build LHCS instead, they could just swap the lok...

[1] Diesel particulate filter.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Cascading has been around ever since the dawn of railways. Stephenson’s ‘Rocket’ was cascaded from main line service to a small line near Brampton when it was only seven years old.

BR scrapped large amounts of steam, diesel and electric rolling stock that was less than 40 years old because it was technologically obsolete, unreliable, expensive to operate, commercially unappealing, lacked modern safety features, etc.

Some trains are just not worth keeping. ‘Unsuitable’ stock certainly shouldn’t be forced on operators or their customers (or the environment) for the sake of it.

But if someone can up-cycle or refurbish old trains to make them attractive again, fair enough.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But if someone can up-cycle or refurbish old trains to make them attractive again, fair enough.

I guess the 769s are an example of this. Is it, I wonder, easier to re-engine a DMU or add engines to an EMU like this?

 

[delt1c]

The principle is sensible though. Cascading has been around since the late 70's at least. Redundant but not life expired DMU's to diesel worked branches and secondary lines. Similar arrangement for EMU equivalent. There must be some cases where transfers would just add to an existing fleet, rather than create a micro fleet. Scrapping non life expired trains* can hardly be an efficient way of managing a railway, unless 'creative' accounting is used.

* 142/143/144 excepted, as they were rubbish from new.

So lets consider the Lymington Branch, TOC leases X amount of 156 or 150 to operate the branch, as they dont operate these at present, drivers, gaurds and depot staff have to be trained ( costs £'s) . They have to stock parts ( again costs £'s) they need at 1 least one spare unit ( again costs £'s). Now all you enthusiasts who are looking at this from a blinkered perspective, step into the TOC shoes and look at the costs over returns. Would you sign the memo to lease these trains.
BR was slightly different in that whilst there were quite a few companies who constructed 1st gen units many parts were common.
As an aside LT had a large class of RT buses but withdrew the Cravens bodied buses 1st as they were non standard.

 

[swt_passenger]

Let’s consider the Lymington branch from the view that it’s supposed to be a normal part of the electrified network, and use of a 158 was supposed to be a short term fudge to release a 450 for strengthening a service nearer London.

Now that the EMU fleet size can at last cope with the branch allocation there’s no point suggesting a random DMU be provided instead.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Let’s consider the Lymington branch from the view that it’s supposed to be a normal part of the electrified network, and use of a 158 was supposed to be a short term fudge to release a 450 for strengthening a service nearer London.

Now that the EMU fleet size can at last cope with the branch allocation there’s no point suggesting a random DMU be provided instead.

There is no point in using a random DMU regardless of the state of the EMU fleet. When a DMU was used, it was from SWT's large DMU fleet, not a random one. If you were going to use a random anything (i.e. a microfleet, like LNR's Class 230s) it might as well be a couple of spare 1980s third-rail EMUs, there will be loads of them very soon. Or even a "Class 230" but without any of the engine gubbins and with the shoegear retained!

 

[swt_passenger]

There is no point in using a random DMU regardless of the state of the EMU fleet. When a DMU was used, it was from SWT's large DMU fleet, not a random one.

Agreed. Little or no impact on maintenance, spares, crew training etc.

 

[AlastairFraser]

The principle is sensible though. Cascading has been around since the late 70's at least. Redundant but not life expired DMU's to diesel worked branches and secondary lines. Similar arrangement for EMU equivalent. There must be some cases where transfers would just add to an existing fleet, rather than create a micro fleet. Scrapping non life expired trains* can hardly be an efficient way of managing a railway, unless 'creative' accounting is used.

* 142/143/144 excepted, as they were rubbish from new.

Especially when we are facing a huge DMU shortage and rising passenger numbers with lots of potential for new services. We should be converting all the off-lease 1980/90's sub-100mph EMU's into bi-modes and refurbing to solve the DMU shortage and operate new services. Some of the intercity EMU's from the 1980s and 1990s should also be converted to bi-mode for services partly under the wires, although there are a lot of 100mph DMU's up for grabs or shortly up grabs Or perhaps fully converted to hydrogen or alternative fuels once that tech is developed and in storage till then.