Idea to improve Waterloo to Exeter

[HSTEd]

There seems to be an attitude of "well you can travel from Reading for a quicker service to Exeter" - yes, at an increased price.

It would almost certainly be cheaper for the railway to provide an express service to Exeter via the B&H or Bristol than it would be to spend huge amounts on the WoE line.
Which means in a sane world tickets for the former would be cheaper.

But these days we live in a market without prices, or a command economy without a commander.

 

[The Ham]

It would almost certainly be cheaper for the railway to provide an express service to Exeter via the B&H or Bristol than it would be to spend huge amounts on the WoE line.
Which means in a sane world tickets for the former would be cheaper.

But these days we live in a market without prices, or a command economy without a commander.

The problem is that the B&H and via Bristol routes to provide extra services from London is going to be expensive.

Whilst this also true for the WofE line, in that you'd need something like Crossrail 2, however the paths from London are a by product of Crossrail 2 (in that the costs of Crossrail 2 would be funded by its services rather than the services out of Waterloo).

Given that there's then 8tph, but fairly limited scope for more services South of Basingstoke or Guildford it's then a car if try and fit the services on lines which have the capacity or are cheap to add capacity to.

The Alton line could be a contender, but you'll probably not increase passenger usage by much at 4tph compared to 3tph.

You could run more services turning around at Basingstoke, but with the the potential for the Southern Approach services you don't really want more than 4tph doing that.

That leaves the WofE line, along it you could run services to Southampton and Weymouth. However there's still going to be some portions/services which would be spare with the scope to go to Exeter.

Yes you'd need to do redoubling, but you would need to do that for any increase in frequency.

As such I would be included to do the following:
- 1tph Waterloo Weymouth/Bristol (Clapham Junction, Basingstoke, Andover, Salisbury and then all stations beyond the WofE line)
- 1tph Waterloo Southampton/Exeter (Woking, Basingstoke, Andover, Salisbury and then stopping beyond Salisbury)
- 1tph Waterloo Exeter (Basingstoke, Salisbury, Honiton, Exeter Central, Exeter St David's)
- 1tph Waterloo Southampton/Yeovil (Waterloo, Clapham Junction, Woking, Basingstoke and then stopping)

Doing that should get you, without any line speed improvements, a sub 3 hour London to Exeter service. Although not enough to bet a Paddington service; it should be enough to get to Exeter from Basingstoke quicker.

It would also likely be the quickest service from Waterloo to Basingstoke, attracting some passengers on to it from other services.

 

[HSTEd]

Is a frequency increase really the best thing for the line?
Wouldn't electrification and the attendant improvement in train performance (even third rail powered 444-alikes would leave the Sprinters in the dust) combined with lengthening platforms for ten car operation to Exeter do more with less money?

Redoubling is likely to become extraordinarily expensive.

 

[The Ham]

Is a frequency increase really the best thing for the line?
Wouldn't electrification and the attendant improvement in train performance (even third rail powered 444-alikes would leave the Sprinters in the dust) combined with lengthening platforms for ten car operation to Exeter do more with less money?

Redoubling is likely to become extraordinarily expensive.

If you electrify before you redouble then you're going to be stuck with it being single track for a long time due to the costs of doing so.

If you it to electrify then I'd do so out to Yeovil and have a cross platform change due DMU's to Exeter from there.

Redoubling the WofE line is still likely to be cheaper than trying to create more paths to Portsmouth.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

I've long wondered whether Paddington to Exeter via Basingstoke and Salisbury couldn't be faster than the route via Newbury. The premise being that the line from Basingstoke to Exeter was more suitable (or otherwise) for improvements to allow 125 mph running than the route via Newbury and Taunton.

 

[HSTEd]

If you electrify before you redouble then you're going to be stuck with it being single track for a long time due to the costs of doing so.

Eh, that depends on the specification of the electrification system.

I'm not convinced full redoubling is going to be justified any time in the next few decades.
The largely single track line on the Borders railway supports two trains per hour in each direction, and 2 10-car trains per hour is such an enormous capacity uplift over the current service pattern that I can't see it saturating for quite a long time.

 

[Mark J]

Interestingly the WoE line is actually split into two by Network Rail:

From Wikipedia:

Network Rail splits the line into two sections: the first section from the line's start at Worting Junction (near Basingstoke) to Wilton Junction (near Salisbury) is classified as "London & SE commuter"; the section from Wilton Junction to Exeter is a "Secondary" route. The secondary route west of Salisbury is predominantly single track, but has three sections of double track and four passing loops. The double track sections and passing loops are: a loop just outside Tisbury station,a loop at Gillingham station, double track from Templecombe to Yeovil Junction, a loop at the former Chard Junction station, 3 miles of double track centred on Axminster, a loop at Honiton station, and double track from Pinhoe to Exeter.

The line's speed limit is mainly 80–90 mph over its whole length from Basingstoke to Exeter.[2] Speed is further limited around the junctions. The first section to Wilton Junction has a listed line speed of 50–90 mph, and the secondary section to Exeter has a line speed of mainly 85 mph with parts at 70 mph.

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When you take out of the equation the passing loops, double track sections from Pinhoe to Exeter and Axminster, the remainder is roughly 80 miles of single track.

 

[MarkyT]

I've long wondered whether Paddington to Exeter via Basingstoke and Salisbury couldn't be faster than the route via Newbury. The premise being that the line from Basingstoke to Exeter was more suitable (or otherwise) for improvements to allow 125 mph running than the route via Newbury and Taunton.

There's a small benefit in distance from London to Exeter, but going via Reading - Basingstoke erodes that. In any case, 100mph+ limited stop running doesn't fit very well with the number and spacing of the smaller stations en route, particularly towards the extremities, even if wholly doubled. Unless those stations were subject to significant changes in service levels, such as introducing skip-stop patterns that could all but destroy some established local flows. The B&H by comparison is already double track throughout, has many fewer stations, and some of their platforms are already bypassed by the main (fast) lines.

 

[Kite159]

Eh, that depends on the specification of the electrification system.

I'm not convinced full redoubling is going to be justified any time in the next few decades.
The largely single track line on the Borders railway supports two trains per hour in each direction, and 2 10-car trains per hour is such an enormous capacity uplift over the current service pattern that I can't see it saturating for quite a long time.

The Borders barely supports 2 trains per hour, and delays soon snowball due to the lack of flexibility.

 

[HSTEd]

The Borders barely supports 2 trains per hour, and delays soon snowball due to the lack of flexibility.

Yes, but there is a long way between less than a third double track (like the Borders line) and fully redoubled.

 

[The Ham]

The secondary route west of Salisbury is predominantly single track, but has three sections of double track and four passing loops. The double track sections and passing loops are: a loop just outside Tisbury station,a loop at Gillingham station, double track from Templecombe to Yeovil Junction, a loop at the former Chard Junction station, 3 miles of double track centred on Axminster, a loop at Honiton station, and double track from Pinhoe to Exeter.

Based on that and wanting to have 3tph at the Western end (Honiton to Exeter) 4tph to Yeovil and 2tph for the rest the focus for redoubling should be basically:
- Honiton Pinhoe
- Crewkerne Axminster
- Tisbury to Gillingham with a bit more towards Salisbury to close that gap up a bit, although better still double track through to Yeovil from the London direction